I received a late night call from a young relative recently asking what the row of switches was in their apartment. After a pic was exchanged I advised it was their circuit breakers. I then had to explain what the purpose of them was. I also advised that they had no earth leakage protection and recommended thay get some plugs that offer such for their 3 pin wet appliances.
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Australian standards for home charging an Electric Vehicle.
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Max Spaghetti
Member
It’s worth mentioning that the Tesla UMC has a temperature probe in the 3-pin plug, which will ramp down and/or disconnect to prevent a GPO fire due to a poor connection in the GPO. This is a lot safer than the kettle/air-fryer/microwave/sandwich press on our kitchen bench that my partner might choose to operate simultaneously! Just sayin…
Edit: I’m not entirely sure whether the 32A aftermarket pigtail I purchased has the same, although I don’t use that at home - just a backup for road trips that’s never been used thus far.
Edit: I’m not entirely sure whether the 32A aftermarket pigtail I purchased has the same, although I don’t use that at home - just a backup for road trips that’s never been used thus far.
arvindm
Member
US Standards are pretty liberal I think due to a robust electric grid (Except Texas) I had a regular electrician put a NEMA 15-50 outlet close to my breaker box in the garage and it cost me about 300 bucks including the materials. I connect the mobile charger to the outlet and charge my MYLR which draws a maximum of 32A. I did have the electrician put a 60A breaker just in case I upgrade the charger to Tesla home charger which can go up to 48A which would be ideal for home but it has to be hard wired which I can actually do myself! But so far there has not been a need for the extra 500 bucks to spend as the mobile charger does the job great!
From the point of view of the discussion above it does not matter. What matters is if the fire can even theoretically be caused by connecting EV charger to the mains in any reasonable or unreasonable, legal or illegal way, it should be banned. Any sort of protection is irrelevant.
What is interesting, a similar kind of reasoning has led to enforcing Type B RCBO for Mode 3 charging: theoretically and very, very hypothetically, hardwired chargers can cause a situation, when a leak current has a very specific profile, which cannot be detected by Type A RCBO. Therefore, we enforce Type B because those EV owners are rich anyway.
According to the Australian beliefs, you in Murica are all dead from electric shock, no exceptions.
arvindm
Member
Been charging since 2017 in Murica and alive and well! Mate! We make it simple!
Max Spaghetti
Member
When you go down the rabbit hole of Type B - I have to ask, are we still talking about fire, or other stuff? This discussion really is about whether constant 15A (or even 10A) EV charging should be allowed through a GPO, and the risk of fire (not electrocution).
EDIT: I understand the Gen 3 wall connector has type B built in. I actually have 2 of those sitting in a box in the garage. I didn’t end up installing them because the original plan was a car-port renovation with 2x Tesla WC on dedicated circuits with load sharing, but life got in the way. So I’m charging off a 15A GPO until further notice. The Reno might happen in a couple of years’ time if the planets align. But what I have works for now.
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Not anymore. We are talking about behavioural traits and where they lead to, especially if they are amplified by a strong lobbying group. In the case of adding more regulations to EV charging installations (in comparison to, for example, using N95 respirators to protect against airborne infections), there are so many lobbying groups which will support it unanimously. You should think about preserving that diesel car in a good shape just in case, there may be a witch hunt, you know.
Max Spaghetti
Member
Ok. All good. My 4WD ICE in the driveway will save me. Actually the reason I bought a Tesla was to keep the kays off the ICE. I want to keep it forever.
My house is relatively modern, built in the 1990s. The main board in the house had RCDs for all the power circuits, but only current overload breakers on the lighting circuits. For a variety of reasons, I wanted the board upgraded to bring it into 21st century safety standards, and had the whole thing replaced and reconfigured in 2022. It wasn’t that horrendously expensive to get peace of mind (and the right house circuits backed up by my PW2 if the grid goes down).
Ehhh… my partner sometimes just forgets to switch it off!You partner must be very impressed at how much ironing you do!
Zoltrix77
Member
That depends on the application really. I recent installed three 15A outlets on one circuit protected by a 16A RCBO because the customer had an appliance that they moved between the outlets that were relatively close, there was no intention to use them all at once. Cost would have increased with 3 cable runs and 3 RCBOs.
Its GENERALLY logical to only install 1x 15A outlet on a circuit because by definition if you are installing a `15A socket-outlet you are logically using a high current device and most of the time its usually installed using the same 2.5mm2 cable as regular 10A socket outlets. This is also providing a functionally useful installation.
In the end, you are using the circuit breaker to protect the fixed cabling, not the customers load. However, its not UNSAFE to put 10 15A or combination of 15 and 10A sockets on the one circuit.
A bit like an average residential single phase installation usually has a 63A CB as a main switch but many sub circuit CB's that add up to way more than that.
There is no differentiation. All wiring should be able to handle continuous loads - (according to my electrician)Correct, the aftermarket tails are 20A /32A. Presumably they are modified from the CEE plugs.
Though evchargers have told me they can modify a 15A OEM tail to an industrial IP66 plug ith a locking ring. However it is not necessary.
I dont agree. It is also not necessary to mandate a 15A socket for residences. For many a 10A is enough to charge their EV. The main difference between an Industrial socket and a standard residential socket is the IP rating and robust construction.
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Bbbut I have a townhouse with 63A mains. The CB to the various parts of the house amount to more than 63A.
This misconception comes from, I think, people reading about rules in the USA and thinking they apply here. My understanding is that in the USA a distinction is made in the wiring rules between continuous and non-continuous draw, whereas here there isn’t. A 10A socket here must have cabling connected of the right rating that copes with continuous draw.
This is why the original tails that came with the UMC here were rated 8/10A and 12/15A and not 10/10A and 15/15A. It was purely Tesla’s default application of US wiring practice to other markets, de-rating the nominal current by 20% to meet continuous load requirements. Thankfully this has now been rectified here.
Yes, and the myth is then perpetuated when people unnecessarily over-spec their circuits because of this myth.
It is more about all fixing screws have to be tightened appropriately to handle continuous loads and not fall off, all power points should be appropriately attached to the walls and not fall off in one year to provide more jobs for fellow electicians, all wiring should be at the required current specification and not less because it is cheaper, in outdoor settings outdoor power points should be used etc etc etc.
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