Autonomous Car Progress

[diplomat33]

Did you catch how showing the demo videos got Cruise into trouble?

View attachment 739898

Cruise cars keep stopping in the middle of the lane to pick up and drop off passengers.

I might be naive but don't humans do that often in San Francisco and New York?

San Francisco agency opposes Cruise robotaxi application, citing safety

San Francisco transit agency has challenged an application by Cruise to charge for robotaxi rides, saying promo videos show illegal passenger behaviour.

www.cnbc.com

Interesting. According to the San Francisco Municipal Transportation Agency the stops were a violation of the Vehicle Code and Transportation Code. Maybe the stops are not illegal per se but there is a legal way to do the stops and an illegal way to do the stops and Cruise did the stops the wrong way?

To answer your question, yes, humans do those kinds of stops too. Maybe the SFMTA does not bother trying to enforce the rule with average people? But since Cruise is a major company trying to deploy a robotaxi service in their city, they are a bigger target. Perhaps, the SFMTA is just picking on Cruise?

I will say this highlights another challenge with deploying autonomous driving. It's not just about "solving FSD", you have to comply with all kinds of local rules. Even the way you pull over to pick up a rider can be a problem apparently if you don't do it in a way that makes the bureaucrats happy.

 

[EVNow]

Even the way you pull over to pick up a rider can be a problem apparently if you don't do it in a way that makes the bureaucrats happy.

That is not what they are saying. Apparently they were picking up and dropping off passengers in the middle of the road instead of at the curb or in parking lots.

ps :

...Cruise passengers illegally hopping in and out of vehicles in the middle of the street instead of at the curb.​

 

[diplomat33]

That is not what they are saying. Apparently they were picking up and dropping off passengers in the middle of the road instead of at the curb or in parking lots.

Then I guess Cruise will need to work on their software to make sure the cars only pick up passengers at curbs or parking lots. Maybe that is why Waymo limits the drop off and pick up points on their maps to avoid this situation?

 

[EVNow]

Then I guess Cruise will need to work on their software to make sure the cars only pick up passengers at curbs or parking lots. Maybe that is why Waymo limits the drop off and pick up points on their maps to avoid this situation?

Right.

Anyway, its just a challenge by the transit agency. They are just an interested party - not the deciding authority.

ps : Still surprised by this - I guess either some of this happened infront of a transit bus and the driver complained - or some "interested" person in the agency took the effort to look through the videos, get the lawyers to draft a 24 page letter etc. Conspiracy theorists would point the finger at Waymo influence.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Did you catch how showing the demo videos got Cruise into trouble?

View attachment 739898

Cruise cars keep stopping in the middle of the lane to pick up and drop off passengers.

I might be naive but don't humans do that often in San Francisco and New York?

San Francisco agency opposes Cruise robotaxi application, citing safety

San Francisco transit agency has challenged an application by Cruise to charge for robotaxi rides, saying promo videos show illegal passenger behaviour.

www.cnbc.com

While plenty of Ubers and taxies do the same thing, what irked the SFMTA was that every single one of the 14 stops Cruise demonstrated was illegal. The question was if the car was even capable of doing a legal drop off/pickup (pulling to curb or parking lot to do so) and if it's even aware what it was doing was illegal.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Interesting. According to the San Francisco Municipal Transportation Agency the stops were a violation of the Vehicle Code and Transportation Code. Maybe the stops are not illegal per se but there is a legal way to do the stops and an illegal way to do the stops and Cruise did the stops the wrong way?

To answer your question, yes, humans do those kinds of stops too. Maybe the SFMTA does not bother trying to enforce the rule with average people? But since Cruise is a major company trying to deploy a robotaxi service in their city, they are a bigger target. Perhaps, the SFMTA is just picking on Cruise?

I will say this highlights another challenge with deploying autonomous driving. It's not just about "solving FSD", you have to comply with all kinds of local rules. Even the way you pull over to pick up a rider can be a problem apparently if you don't do it in a way that makes the bureaucrats happy.

Well most regular people/companies don't have the hubris to post illegal behavior in promotional videos (although some do, like some that get charged for reckless driving based on video). Just like how plenty of people stop at bus stops (which results in a big fat ticket if a bus happened to stop and catch you on camera), but typically they don't to post it in social media and promote it.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Well most regular people/companies don't have the hubris to post illegal behavior in promotional videos

Have you watched any FSD Beta videos?
I guess they may not be regular people…

 

[stopcrazypp]

Right.

Anyway, its just a challenge by the transit agency. They are just an interested party - not the deciding authority.

ps : Still surprised by this - I guess either some of this happened infront of a transit bus and the driver complained - or some "interested" person in the agency took the effort to look through the videos, get the lawyers to draft a 24 page letter etc. Conspiracy theorists would point the finger at Waymo influence.

They can't decide on approval for the application to charge money for the rides (that's a state decision by CPUC), but they can certainly ban Cruise from operating in San Francisco (just like they did to Uber back then when they tried to operate without SFMTA approval, and also how they blocked certain bike and scooter sharing companies that tried to just drop vehicles in SF streets). Given Cruise is heavily based in SF, if would be a huge blow if they did that, but I doubt it would reach that point. Cruise would likely work with SFMTA to find some compromise.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Have you watched any FSD Beta videos?
I guess they may not be regular people…

They aren't most people and aren't promotional videos though. The ones that rise to promotional video (like stunts designed to get hundreds of thousands or millions of views) do catch the eye of the authorities if the vehicle owner/driver can be identified (what I put in parentheses). I do notice in some FSD Beta videos there is illegal behavior in clips (like right turn on red when there is a sign that says it's not allowed) but it's such a small part of the video it's easily missed by most people.

Way different than what Cruise is doing, literally like half the video in the linked Twitter post shows an illegal pickup and drop off (with most of the trip cut out).

What Cruise did is akin to Tesla posting FSD promo videos with illegal behavior, and not cutting it out, but rather making it most of the video.

 

[Daniel in SD]

They aren't most people and aren't promotional videos though. The ones that rise to promotional video (like stunts designed to get hundreds of thousands or millions of views) do catch the eye of the authorities if the vehicle owner/driver can be identified (what I put in parentheses). I do notice in some FSD Beta videos there is illegal behavior in clips (like right turn on red when there is a sign that says it's not allowed) but it's such a small part of the video it's easily missed by most people.

Way different than what Cruise is doing, literally like half the video in the linked Twitter post shows an illegal pickup and drop off (with most of the trip cut out).

What Cruise did is akin to Tesla posting FSD promo videos with illegal behavior, and not cutting it out, but rather making it most of the video.

Double parking is how taxis work in crowded cities though. Has any taxi driver ever lost their permit for doing it?

 

[EVNow]

Does anyone have links to these videos - so we can figure out what actually happened? Was that double parking or just in the middle of the road ...

 

[diplomat33]

Does anyone have links to these videos - so we can figure out what actually happened? Was that double parking or just in the middle of the road ...

Here is one:

Here is the other:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1463729804599967747

I am not aware of any other videos.

 

[EVNow]

Here is one:

Here is the other:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1463729804599967747

I am not aware of any other videos.

Ok, this one is double parking. What about others.

BTW, in general, robotaxis should make a reasonable attempt to find some spot at the curb and use double parking as a last resort. Cruise probably won't do it.

 

[ThomasD]

Will the rides be cheaper than an UBER

 

[diplomat33]

Will the rides be cheaper than an UBER

That is the plan, yes.

 

[ThomasD]

According to Cruise they are only testing at night to avoid traffic.

 

[diplomat33]

According to Cruise they are only testing at night to avoid traffic.

Yes, for now. Since the cars are driverless (meaning there is no safety driver to take over in an emergency), they want to reduce risk for testing. I am sure they will expand testing to more busy times with more traffic.

 

[ThomasD]

That is the plan, yes.

Where are human drivers making 4 dollars a mile

 

[diplomat33]

Where are human drivers making 4 dollars a mile

According to GM, that is what drivers make on average in SF.

 

[ThomasD]

It looks like San Francisco drivers make .60 a mile and .20 a minute as of 1 Oct

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