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Autonomous Car Progress
- Thread starter stopcrazypp
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- Autonomous Vehicles
Tam
Well-Known Member
I guess you are ignoring all the current complaints about driving Tesla pure vision, from hitting the garbage can to the stricter nanny system.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
You are ignoring the fact that radar has never prevented the car from hitting static objects.
If you think somehow Tesla should have used ugly Lidar in 2016 in the cars - I can assure you exactly ZERO cars would have been sold and Tesla would be bankrupt by now.
What you don't seem to understand is that these hit pieces in NYT and others that question Tesla's pure vision idea are basically propaganda pieces by competitors.
Tam
Well-Known Member
I am not. That is why sensor fusion, including Lidar is essential.
So is it a choice between ugliness but alive or beauty but dead?
So is it a choice between wealthy but unsafe and bankrupt but safe?
Tesla could have disclosed all of this information instead of letting others do that for them.
It's insightful, informative, and factual. For this thread, it means Tesla still has a long way to go in terms of progress. And that is news.
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Tam
Well-Known Member
I am a consumer, not an engineer. I rely on the information presented or hidden to be an informed consumer.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Who is dead ? Yes, 800k+ people because of Covid. Would you support a China like lockdown ?
BTW, you are speculating that vision doesn't work - purely based on what Tesla's rivals - who have a vested interest in portraying Tesla's vision as unsound - are saying. I guess you carry a lidar when you drive around too ?
See above.
I'm sorry you can't distinguish between BS propaganda and news. Its actually easy to tell.
Writing about "recall" of software for 12k cars but not that an updated software went out in a day is a dead give-away.
Tam
Well-Known Member
So, your understanding is: Each time there's a recall, there needs to be a report of some good coming out of it or otherwise it's bad?
Prior to 8GB eMMC from the MCU recall, owners have been demanding from NHTSA to declare it as a "recall".
Apparently "recall" is something good to deal with something that's already bad. Thus, when there's a recall, it's automatically assumed that the defect is fixed.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Apparently according to you this is how to deal with issues.
ps : This is getting quite OT here.
I use AP/FSDbeta every time I drive in Tesla-central (Silicon Valley). That's been about 18 months now.
“In the 2nd quarter, we recorded one crash for every 4.41 million miles driven in which drivers were using Autopilot technology (Autosteer and active safety features). For drivers who were not using Autopilot technology (no Autosteer and active safety features), we recorded one crash for every 1.2 million miles driven. By comparison, NHTSA’s most recent data shows that in the United States there is an automobile crash every 484,000 miles.”
cleantechnica.com
“In the 2nd quarter, we recorded one crash for every 4.41 million miles driven in which drivers were using Autopilot technology (Autosteer and active safety features). For drivers who were not using Autopilot technology (no Autosteer and active safety features), we recorded one crash for every 1.2 million miles driven. By comparison, NHTSA’s most recent data shows that in the United States there is an automobile crash every 484,000 miles.”
Tesla: 1 Crash Per 4.41 Million Miles Traveled On Autopilot - CleanTechnica
Sign up for daily news updates from CleanTechnica on email. Or follow us on Google News! In light of Tesla ... [continued]
cleantechnica.com
Tam
Well-Known Member
Companies with LIDAR have figured out how to avoid crashes for years like Google/Waymo since 2009.
Avoiding crashes is an easy and successful task for them but they are still lacking intelligence.
Waymo did not collide with a traffic cone as avoiding crashes is an easy task but it didn't know how to deal with the traffic cone that was out of place in its pre-mapping memory.
In the meantime, Tesla is still struggling with simple basic crash avoidance tasks such as curves of death:
Auto-steer does not slow down at curves
I am driving 2021 MY with FSD. When using auto-steer it enters tight curves at full speed, it manages to stay in lane but makes a very uncomfortable ride. Things fly around in the car. Are all cars like this? I am wondering how Tesla team did not consider a solution for such a common problem...
teslamotorsclub.com
Tam
Well-Known Member
I admit that you are correct about their non-sales.In a million cars they have sold to customers, right ?
Since the intelligence part is so difficult, Waymo is now partnering with trucking companies to take advantage of what machines like: repeatability, the unchanging environment of pre-set routes, and depots for trucks in L4.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Scaling and mass production are hard.
As the old joke goes, Soviet Union had no problem sending rockets but had trouble making good shoes.
ps :
Its like deja vu all over again. These two are different dimensions. Nobody is yet to crack both - only one or the other. Cracking one doesn't guarantee the other and you can't compare one dimension with the other. I've been saying this for a looong time.
- Features (i.e. how close someone is to robotaxi)
- Geographical scaling
pps :
We actually have 3 dimensions
- Scenario (or feature)
- Location
- Individual (i.e. people)
Reliability is not a dimension - its a "measure". For a given combination of the above 3 dimensions we get a particular reliability (or error probability) number. Ofcourse the reliability can be calculated for a group of individuals/scenarios/locations or any combinations of them.
Waymo has high reliability for a lot of features - but only in small # of locations and only for their own cars.
ps : Elevators work in a lot of locations but in extremely limited number of scenarios
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Not sure if it has been posted here or in other threads, but I'm seeing news today that Mercedes gained approval for a Level 3 system in Germany
wtvbam.com
Watching some footage of what the Mercedes EQS can do, that's functionality I would pay for
Mercedes-Benz’s hands-free drive system clears German authority
BERLIN (Reuters) - Mercedes-Benz's semi-autonomous driving system has been cleared by Germany's car authority, paving the way for the Daimler AG subsi...
wtvbam.com
Watching some footage of what the Mercedes EQS can do, that's functionality I would pay for
Tam
Well-Known Member
It's only approved for slow highway speed such as stop-and-go traffic. Tesla has done a very good job in that condition although it's not L3 due to its nanny system.
Yup I think they expect more to come, both in improvements to the system via OTA updates and regulatory approvals
Being L3 in any capacity is entirely the point. I personally wouldn't pay for a system that still requires hands on the wheel and eyes forward, but I will pay for a system that allows me to stop paying attention for long highway hauls
What do we call this? Being salacious or factitious? Or maybe just weak FUD?
Tam's "curves of death" = staying in lane, but very uncomfortable per the new user
"When using auto-steer it enters tight curves at full speed, it manages to stay in lane but makes a very uncomfortable ride."
Tam's "curves of death" = staying in lane, but very uncomfortable per the new user
"When using auto-steer it enters tight curves at full speed, it manages to stay in lane but makes a very uncomfortable ride."
In the meantime, Tesla is still struggling with simple basic crash avoidance tasks such as curves of death:
Auto-steer does not slow down at curves
I am driving 2021 MY with FSD. When using auto-steer it enters tight curves at full speed, it manages to stay in lane but makes a very uncomfortable ride. Things fly around in the car. Are all cars like this? I am wondering how Tesla team did not consider a solution for such a common problem...
I think Tesla has the scaling and mass production problem in-hand. They've been dog-fooding their AP/FSD and have a super quick SW update cycle.
Curves of death = curve where entering at the speed limit is entering too fast.
If stuff is flying around inside the car you're pushing it, and any sudden loss of traction could cause you to exit the road.
Responsible humans recognize the difficult conditions and slow down. They don't need sharp bend signs.
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