I think you've gotten a lot of good advice, but my experience on the skidpad suggests that the 4S is really greasy at 40+ lbs, esp. at 45 and that they have a bit more grip 37-39 lbs - and less greasy breakaway for sure. If you had -1 to -1.5 camber at least, and lower pressure than 45 lbs, you might have avoided the worst of chunking, but as others have pointed out, this tire isn't really built for hot lap after hot lap. For sure, from everything hard core track guys on the forum have said, the RE71s look like the way to go, but aren't fun on trips or on the street in general. Good to get separate wheels and tires for track and street - expensive, but then again, tracking a car isn't a cheap hobby!
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Avoiding chunking/tire damage while tracking
- Thread starter Lunares
- Start date
I think you've gotten a lot of good advice, but my experience on the skidpad suggests that the 4S is really greasy at 40+ lbs, esp. at 45 and that they have a bit more grip 37-39 lbs - and less greasy breakaway for sure. If you had -1 to -1.5 camber at least, and lower pressure than 45 lbs, you might have avoided the worst of chunking, but as others have pointed out, this tire isn't really built for hot lap after hot lap. For sure, from everything hard core track guys on the forum have said, the RE71s look like the way to go, but aren't fun on trips or on the street in general. Good to get separate wheels and tires for track and street - expensive, but then again, tracking a car isn't a cheap hobby!
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
PS4S tires are not good track/autocross tires. The Hankook RS-4 are probably the best budget track/autocross tires and they make them in 265/40R18. They last much longer than RE71Rs.
How much tread do you have on the tyres? You don't want them to have anywhere near new tread depth if you want optimal performance.
MasterC17
Active Member
Good advice, I think the RS-4's will be my next tire. I ran RS-2's and RS-3's and had great experiences!
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
I little bit less but the main difference is that they last three times as long (or at least so I've heard). There are tons of threads in other forums discussing the differences and the conclusion always seems to be that unless you're doing competitive autocross or time attack the R-S4 is the way to go.
SammichLover
Banned
....unless there is substantial standing water on the track’s line, or it is very actively raining.
I got to do a few “fun laps” yesterday on my new 235/45R18 PS4S’. I had to close the windows the water was so deep in spots & the grip was amaze-balls.
My intention for them is for street use, outside of heavy water, though.
PS. When I had them mounted I forgot to name a pressure to installer & he filled them 34PSI cold. Holy dead fish, the turn-in delay just lane changing on the highway at 55mph was stunning. I put 4lb and that went away. I’m still going to up them from there but haven’t sorted it yet.
Last edited:
Yes, in the wet they beat the RE71s. Amazing, almost impossible grip on wet asphalt.
I think ~39-40 lbs is where they seem to have the best handling overall. They get pretty greasy above 41-42 and by 45 I think their contact patch is just too small for best grip. I suspect that they wear best just under 40 or at 40, but their rolling resistance clearly must still be going down as you raise pressures above 40 or else Tesla wouldn't have 42 as a recommended pressure.
Like everything else, it's all tradeoffs. We've decided that around town we have them at 39, and for trips add 3 lbs. Curious if you have the same impressions of a handling sweetspot somewhere around 38-40 lbs.
Last edited:
SammichLover
Banned
I look forward to getting the feature that is rolling out in Europe right now where the "normal pressure range" can be changed. The constant error message of "low tire pressure" is counterproductive, as in the end it'll obscure an error message I care about.
Well, not 3x longer, but RS4's can be more durable than RE71's.
The major benefit of RE71's is that they come to grip with minimal warm-up, so you can get predictable and near-optimal traction out of them after a few corners. RS4's take way longer to warm up, and are thus trickier for autoX application. You can end up destroying RS4's from excessive sliding faster than RE71's, if you don't have the time and patience to bring them up to temp properly (then measure temps with pyrometer, repeat as necessary, etc). Depending on the time of the year and your climate, this can be a real PITA.
RE71's, on the other hand, are "power up and go" tires.
That said, I've used-up multiple sets of RS3's, RS4's, and have just about finished RE71's on my ///M3.
For DEs, and riving to DEs on one set of tires, RS4's last longer.
For auotX, it's 6 of one, half dozen of the other.
YMMV,
a
MasterC17
Active Member
I dropped the P4S to ~39 for my first track day and they were way more grippy but rolled far too much for my liking. Like scarily far.
Op- I don’t know about autocross but the RE71r is a great track tire, and I don’t find the noise objectionable for daily driving. Agree with kbecks13 about the gravel though. It can be a problem for the finish of those sweet signatures you got. Don’t ask me how I know
I dropped the P4S to ~39 for my first track day and they were way more grippy but rolled far too much for my liking. Like scarily far.View attachment 399879
Op- I don’t know about autocross but the RE71r is a great track tire, and I don’t find the noise objectionable for daily driving. Agree with kbecks13 about the gravel though. It can be a problem for the finish of those sweet signatures you got. Don’t ask me how I know
Wow that's a ridiculous amount of rollover. A degree or two of negative camber might help but then again it would kill your wear on the street
Glamisduner
Active Member
SammichLover
Banned
PS4S? Yeah, save those works of art for the road. Beat up something else on the track.Now I'm sad that my new tires will not be good on the track
It is king of "Street tire Autocross" right now, has been basically since they were released. Rival S 1.5 is the only tire that's even close to run as often until you get into classes that are allowed non-street tires (tires with lower treadwear than 200 and slicks). But if you're not bent on contending for the top time, or the local competition is 2nd tier anyway and you're a good driver, then 2nd tier stuff like the RS4 is very serviceable. Note that some vehicles do run Pilot Sport 4S in Autocross, especially when the track has water on it where they and Extreme Contact Continentals are actually the top end. However it seems that the Model 3's weight, and tire width limit (for classing reasons) compared to vehicles like late model Corvettes, mean that it'd be very expensive to run them on the Model 3 on dry days.
Only if you take corners like a teetotaller.
I dropped the P4S to ~39 for my first track day and they were way more grippy but rolled far too much for my liking. Like scarily far.View attachment 399879
Op- I don’t know about autocross but the RE71r is a great track tire, and I don’t find the noise objectionable for daily driving. Agree with kbecks13 about the gravel though. It can be a problem for the finish of those sweet signatures you got. Don’t ask me how I know
I almost do want to know how!
Hm interesting that you got that much roll at 39 PSI. I run my PS4s on the street around 40-42 PSI and don't have that much issue.
I was planning on putting the RE71Rs at 35PSI cold to start, maybe should have it higher? The sidewall on the RE71Rs is very little
Now I'm sad that my new tires will not be good on the track
I'm assuming that you're talking about the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S . Keep in mind that there is nothing in technological design without compromise - they are great street tires, and easily one of the two best tires in the rain ever. They just can't handle the heat of tracking. The RE71s are not fun on a rough road, are really noisy, throw rocks at your bodywork, and have pretty poor rolling resistance. Just get four of each! Cheap!
Last edited:
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Agreed. If you’re tracking a 4000lb car be prepared to spend money on tires. Don’t waste your money on RE71Rs though unless you’re actually a good driver competing for trophies. Get the R-S4s.
Glamisduner
Active Member
Wife isn't going to like that lol. Still trying to figure out what to do with my 18s and mxm4. Probably end up tracking whatever i have since I'll new to it anyways.
Will the AS mxm4s hold up better?
Probably not. They are even less likely to handle the heat of tracking due to their all-season compounding. Plus they just have almost no real adhesion compared to the pilot Sports. You'll be slipping and sliding like you're driving on a bar of soap. Don't know about their Breakaway characteristics and you definitely want a tire that's highly predictable especially when you're starting out. That's probably more likely the pilot Sports
Don't worry - my wife has promised to commit me if I buy any more wheels and tires so I feel your pain!
Similar threads
