AWD or Not?

[Justmurr]

i also would have liked the D... but just can't bear the wait.
I wish I had the strength to hold out but after waiting so long to become a tesla owner... I just want my 3 as soon as I can get it, realizing that I will likely regret this once the Ds start rolling around but I'll regret it from the slightly worn in drivers seat of my 3.

There's already enough variables that could delay my delivery... can't justify adding to it for dual motors.

 

[McHoffa]

If I can get AWD this year I'll do it. I was 20th at my store so it's possible. I want to be able to get credit this year on one then turn around and use the credit as down payment on the second a few months later. I know for the second one I'll be able to get AWD, but again, I'll only do it if it means I get full credit still.

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

i also would have liked the D... but just can't bear the wait.
I wish I had the strength to hold out but after waiting so long to become a tesla owner... I just want my 3 as soon as I can get it, realizing that I will likely regret this once the Ds start rolling around but I'll regret it from the slightly worn in drivers seat of my 3.

There's already enough variables that could delay my delivery... can't justify adding to it for dual motors.

I don't think you will have any regrets when you're behind the wheel driving your RWD Tesla around, as long as it's not snowing.

 

[JeffK]

i also would have liked the D... but just can't bear the wait.
I wish I had the strength to hold out but after waiting so long to become a tesla owner... I just want my 3 as soon as I can get it, realizing that I will likely regret this once the Ds start rolling around but I'll regret it from the slightly worn in drivers seat of my 3.

There's already enough variables that could delay my delivery... can't justify adding to it for dual motors.

Again, If Elon is correct, it's unlikely in PA that you're going to get an RWD model before the AWDs start rolling out at the end of this year.

 

[McHoffa]

When I get my first order's configuration email I will decide from there. If I put in AWD and it says end of the year I'll go for it, otherwise my #1 will just get RWD. It's very possible if production ramps up that #200k will deliver in Q4. I don't want to miss out on full credit on either of my 3s.

 

[JeffK]

When I get my first order's configuration email I will decide from there. If I put in AWD and it says end of the year I'll go for it, otherwise my #1 will just get RWD. It's very possible if production ramps up that #200k will deliver in Q4. I don't want to miss out on full credit on either of my 3s.

This is why I'm banking on the wording that West Coast North America will start first meaning some of the early models might go to Canada, thus delaying the 200,000th US delivery while still filling pre-orders.

If they don't delay that 200,000th car until Q1 2018 then they are throwing away nearly half a billion dollars in potential tax credits for customers.

Math for those who care:
having the full credit cut short by a quarter means 3 months worth of customers lose out on $3750 each.
Assuming full production rate of S/X/3 that's 125,000 vehicles in 3 months.
125,000 * $3750 = $468.75 million dollars of potential tax credit (if they all happened to be US deliveries).

 

[dsvick]

If they don't delay that 200,000th car until Q1 2018 then they are throwing away nearly half a billion dollars in potential tax credits for customers.

Math for those who care:
having the full credit cut short by a quarter means 3 months worth of customers lose out on $3750 each.
Assuming full production rate of S/X/3 that's 125,000 vehicles in 3 months.
125,000 * $3750 = $468.75 million dollars of potential tax credit (if they all happened to be US deliveries).

I think a lot of it will depend on how close to the end of the quarter they are when they assume they'll hit 200K. If it's the middle of November they may not be able to shift everything to Canada for that amount of time.

 

[JeffK]

I think a lot of it will depend on how close to the end of the quarter they are when they assume they'll hit 200K. If it's the middle of November they may not be able to shift everything to Canada for that amount of time.

If we assume 50-60% of Model S/X sales are going to US customers then there's still some wiggle room even at full S/X production.

They'd have to have a pretty quick ramp up and no delays in order to hit Q4

 

[S3XY]

This is why I'm banking on the wording that West Coast North America will start first meaning some of the early models might go to Canada, thus delaying the 200,000th US delivery while still filling pre-orders.

If they don't delay that 200,000th car until Q1 2018 then they are throwing away nearly half a billion dollars in potential tax credits for customers.

Math for those who care:
having the full credit cut short by a quarter means 3 months worth of customers lose out on $3750 each.
Assuming full production rate of S/X/3 that's 125,000 vehicles in 3 months.
125,000 * $3750 = $468.75 million dollars of potential tax credit (if they all happened to be US deliveries).

You're actually understating the losers. Six months later thousands will lose $1,875 by getting half of the $3,750 and 6 months after that thousands more will miss out on getting the last $1,875 and will not get a tax credit at all.

 

[JeffK]

You're actually understating the losers. Six months later thousands will lose $1,875 by getting half of the $3,750 and 6 months after that thousands more will miss out on getting the last $1,875 and will not get a tax credit at all.

True, it'd be almost a billion dollars if 100% of capacity went to US customers during the phase out period.

 

[Big-T]

I'm in CA, but am planning to get AWD so that I can drive through chain enforced mountainous areas without putting on chains. Otherwise, I'd be driving my Subaru up the mountains instead, which would partially defeat the purpose of buying a Tesla with AP2. I know snow tires + RWD would be more effective, but it's simply not practical to swap them in and out for each weekend trip.

You've got more faith in AP2 than I do if you think you're going to be able to use it in winter conditions on the mountains that require chains for most cars.

 

[mspohr]

You've got more faith in AP2 than I do if you think you're going to be able to use it in winter conditions on the mountains that require chains for most cars.

I don't think he's planning on using AP in snow.
California has chain requirements which are most often "R-2" which requires chains on cars except AWD cars. If you have an AWD car (and adequate snow tires), you don't have to put on chains... this is a big advantage getting over the summits. I drive over Donner summit frequently in my AWD Model S and have never had to put on chains.

 

[pmich80]

i also would have liked the D... but just can't bear the wait.
I wish I had the strength to hold out but after waiting so long to become a tesla owner... I just want my 3 as soon as I can get it, realizing that I will likely regret this once the Ds start rolling around but I'll regret it from the slightly worn in drivers seat of my 3.

There's already enough variables that could delay my delivery... can't justify adding to it for dual motors.

Honestly, I would just wait. Assuming the first few months are the west coast, I honestly don't believe the delay to east coast for AWD would be anything more than 3 months.

 

[daniel]

Almost daily I read comments from people who are basically saying they cannot live without an AWD Model 3. Why? Is it just personal preference, like eating liver, or is it some other reason?

What is it about AWD that people think they can’t live without. Please don’t get me wrong, I know there are parts of our country where AWD is almost required due to weather conditions, but how does someone justify AWD if they live in California, Arizona, New Mexico or other climate friendly states?

So if we take weather out of the formula for deciding to purchase AWD, what is it about AWD that makes it worth it?

Is another 10-20 miles of range worth it? I don’t know. I’ve heard the car handles better….I don’t know? I’ve heard that RWD makes the cabin quieter….I don’t know.

I’ve owned over 30 cars in my 68 years and only three of them were AWD/4-wheel drive and that was for going off-road or RV’ing. RWD worked for me all over this country, even when I lived in the Chicago area.

So my post is asking all of you knowledgeable people, why the bug for AWD?

Oh yeah….Enjoy your Model 3 !!!!

I think when people say they "cannot live without" AWD it is a bit of hyperbole. People cannot live without air and water and food. The real issue is that some are willing to wait a few extra months and pay extra for AWD for its benefits, which include range, power, and handling, even on dry pavement. For pretty much everyone, there's a price point where they would choose to live without AWD. And for some, there's no benefit and they wouldn't pay any extra for it.

I want AWD mainly for the added power and handling. Range is not an issue for me because I don't drive all that far (except for my one annual road trip which is farther than the range of any current EV).

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

If your getting it because it's more energy efficient and will save you money, try calculating the payoff period based on your electricity rates and see if it's worth it. I'm not sure how I calculated it, but I do remember it would take millions of miles to ever recoup the $5,000.

 

[Doug_G]

I find the handling is better on AWD. If I need to turn and accelerate the RWD gets tail happy (not surprisingly). The AWD is totally stable under the same conditions.

And it's a lot better on snow and ice. Hands down.

 

[daniel]

If your getting it because it's more energy efficient and will save you money, try calculating the payoff period based on your electricity rates and see if it's worth it. I'm not sure how I calculated it, but I do remember it would take millions of miles to ever recoup the $5,000.

No new car is ever justified by total cost of ownership alone. A 5-year-old used Honda Civic will be far more economical than a new Model 3. Nobody whose priority is economical transportation should ever buy any new car.

People buy new cars for a variety of reasons, but "saving money" is not one of them.

However, in the abstract, some of us like the idea of conserving energy through efficiency even if it costs us more in the long run. I bought my 2004 Prius in part to burn less gasoline, even though keeping my old 1989 Civic would have cost me less. And in the case of an EV, greater efficiency translates to greater range, which will be important for people whose driving habits push the bounds of the car's range. That $5,000 (assuming that turns out to be the actual cost, which they have not announced yet) might be worth it to get an additional 5% or 10% of range (or whatever it turns out to be) for some folks.

For me, electricity is so cheap where I live that a 10% improvement in efficiency translates to an insignificant amount of money. My Prius costs me about 8 cents per mile for the gasoline to drive and my Roadster costs me about 2 cents per mile for the electricity. But the annual service on the Roadster makes it the more expensive car to operate, even without considering the amortization of the price tag. Yet I get a warm happy feeling knowing that I'm contributing zero carbon to the atmosphere when I drive the Roadster, since here in the pacific northwest my electricity comes from hydro.

So you're absolutely right about the money, but nobody is buying these cars to "save" money. We're investing in a better way to drive.

 

[ChooseGreen]

Have any winter S drivers noticed a notable tire wear difference between RWD and AWD? I'll be changing (and therefore ritating) the tires twice per year to put my snows on and off, plan on getting longer life tires and won't be doing many launches, but I wonder whether 2-wheel regen versus 4-wheel regen would make much difference in tire cost in the long run.

 

[ChooseGreen]

*rotating, not ritating

 

[internalaudit]

But with Tesla, the more features you add, the more features you have to get repaired.

The issue with the drive train units was with single more Model S'es. I guess two motors are worked less harder than a single motor.

It must have been fixed since the 2015 models came out but that's also one reason I was leaning towards AWD.