Battery Range MYLR vs. MYP

[rklip]

Hopefully this isn't a dumb question and maybe the answer is implied by the range stated currently for each variant on Tesla.com. But I figured someone smarter than me here may know.

When equally equipped (particularly same wheel/tire set), and when driven same style/environment, will the range of a Long Range AWD and Performance be the same? Understanding if you mash the pedal on the P more, that will matter. But all things equal (or throwing both throttles in Chill mode), and software being the main (only?) difference, should the range between the two theoretically be the same?

 

[Tslrsx]

Should be equal of tired and rims are same

 

[ewoodrick]

Hopefully this isn't a dumb question and maybe the answer is implied by the range stated currently for each variant on Tesla.com. But I figured someone smarter than me here may know.

When equally equipped (particularly same wheel/tire set), and when driven same style/environment, will the range of a Long Range AWD and Performance be the same? Understanding if you mash the pedal on the P more, that will matter. But all things equal (or throwing both throttles in Chill mode), and software being the main (only?) difference, should the range between the two theoretically be the same?

Doesn't the site list it at 30+ miles less?

 

[rklip]

Doesn't the site list it at 30+ miles less?

I *think* that's all due to the wheel spec 21" (and wider in rear) vs. 19", but that's what I was hoping to flush out here. Thanks

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Doesn't the site list it at 30+ miles less?

Currently only the Y Performance has an EPA estimate on the website. The other numbers quoted are estimates for now, though probably they will be close.

H

When equally equipped (particularly same wheel/tire set), and when driven same style/environment, will the range of a Long Range AWD and Performance be the same? Understanding if you mash the pedal on the P more, that will matter. But all things equal (or throwing both throttles in Chill mode), and software being the main (only?) difference, should the range between the two theoretically be the same?

Not necessarily. The 2020 Model 3 Performance 18" and the 2020 Model 3 AWD 18" have different efficiencies, consistently. Though the EPA website does not show it, the raw datafile provided by the EPA does show that the Model 3 Performance is about 4% more efficient than the Long Range AWD in 2020.

Some people believe this is due to the different rear drive unit inverter in the Model 3 Performance. In 2019, the AWD started getting a differently numbered drive unit - which may have a different inverter lower output inverter (we don't know - all we know is that the rear drive unit on AWD is rated for lower output power according to the EPA documents).

Furthermore, if the two vehicles (MYLR and MYP) were going to be the same, and had the same drivetrain, they would already have an official EPA rating on the website (again, the MYLR does not right now). Because with the same drivetrain you can use the same numbers (they did this for Model 3 in 2018 when AWD and Performance were the same except for the software max torque & max HP setting).

So this strongly suggests the Model Y AWD will also get a different, lower output, rear drive unit.

Raw data here...I am still filling in some numbers; Model Y is estimated so far.

2020, 2019, 2018 Model 3 Battery Capacities & Charging Constants

I'd expect about 240 miles max out of the Model Y Performance (315 mile version) with 19" wheels on the freeway at 70-80mph. We'll see! When the detailed 5-cycle data is published it will be more clear.

 

[rklip]

Currently only the Y Performance has an EPA estimate on the website. The other numbers quoted are estimates for now, though probably they will be close.


In 2019, the AWD started getting a differently numbered drive unit - which may have a different inverter lower output inverter (we don't know - all we know is that the rear drive unit on AWD is rated for lower output power according to the EPA documents).

Furthermore, if the two vehicles (MYLR and MYP) were going to be the same, and had the same drivetrain, they would already have an official EPA rating on the website (again, the MYLR does not right now). Because with the same drivetrain you can use the same numbers (they did this for Model 3 in 2018 when AWD and Performance were the same except for the software max torque & max HP setting).

I'd expect about 240 miles max out of the Model Y Performance (315 mile version) with 19" wheels on the freeway at 70-80mph. We'll see! When the detailed 5-cycle data is published it will be more clear.

I was vaguely aware of the drive unit change on the M3P last year, this analysis seems to make a lot of sense if it holds true for the new MYP as well. Also didn't look close enough or put 2 and 2 together in that the MYP is the only Y thus far that has the official EPA rating, not just an estimate. Good call there.

Have to believe you're going to be in the ballpark on that highway range/speed estimate. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Chomlee]

Currently only the Y Performance has an EPA estimate on the website. The other numbers quoted are estimates for now, though probably they will be close.

View attachment 509801 View attachment 509802



Not necessarily. The 2020 Model 3 Performance 18" and the 2020 Model 3 AWD 18" have different efficiencies, consistently. Though the EPA website does not show it, the raw datafile provided by the EPA does show that the Model 3 Performance is about 4% more efficient than the Long Range AWD in 2020.

Some people believe this is due to the different rear drive unit inverter in the Model 3 Performance. In 2019, the AWD started getting a differently numbered drive unit - which may have a different inverter lower output inverter (we don't know - all we know is that the rear drive unit on AWD is rated for lower output power according to the EPA documents).

Furthermore, if the two vehicles (MYLR and MYP) were going to be the same, and had the same drivetrain, they would already have an official EPA rating on the website (again, the MYLR does not right now). Because with the same drivetrain you can use the same numbers (they did this for Model 3 in 2018 when AWD and Performance were the same except for the software max torque & max HP setting).

So this strongly suggests the Model Y AWD will also get a different, lower output, rear drive unit.

Raw data here...I am still filling in some numbers; Model Y is estimated so far.

2020, 2019, 2018 Model 3 Battery Capacities & Charging Constants

I'd expect about 240 miles max out of the Model Y Performance (315 mile version) with 19" wheels on the freeway at 70-80mph. We'll see! When the detailed 5-cycle data is published it will be more clear.

We can’t forget about the aerodynamics. One difference between any sedan and a “crossover“ type SUV is that with the higher profile, speeds under 60 might yield similar mpg or range. But, once you start to get over that speed, the efficiency/speed curve goes down much steeper with the ”crossover” type then a sedan. My guess is that this is why you see so many complaints of range on the Y since many people are driving 80 mph on the highway and expecting to get the full 330 range (Or near that).

 

[TomServo]

I have some 18” tires/wheels (8.5” wide) I bought from TSportLine mounted with Michelin Pilot Sport AS 4 tires (should be the same tires as the OEM 21s I get at delivery) waiting to go on my MPY I have on order. My EDD is 7 Aug - 9 Sept. I will conduct some BEFORE and AFTER EFFICIENCY and PERFORMANCE tests when I get it. My DRAGY and tires are ready to go, now all I need is my new PMY.

Going in I know two things:
1. The new tires/wheels weight about 15 pounds (each) less than the OEMs. About 60 pounds less weight in total.
2. There is less FRONTAL area of the 245s squared than the staggered and larger OEMs

Will this make ANY difference in my EFFICIENCY or PERFORMANCE, who knows. But less weight and aero drag has to be better everything else being EQUAL.

More to follow if when Elon delivers my new PMY.

 

[jcanoe]

I have some 18” tires/wheels (8.5” wide) I bought from TSportLine mounted with Michelin Pilot Sport AS 4 tires (should be the same tires as the OEM 21s I get at delivery) waiting to go on my MPY I have on order. My EDD is 7 Aug - 9 Sept. I will conduct some BEFORE and AFTER EFFICIENCY and PERFORMANCE tests when I get it. My DRAGY and tires are ready to go, now all I need is my new PMY.

Going in I know two things:
1. The new tires/wheels weight about 15 pounds (each) less than the OEMs. About 60 pounds less weight in total.
2. There is less FRONTAL area of the 245s squared than the staggered and larger OEMs

Will this make ANY difference in my EFFICIENCY or PERFORMANCE, who knows. But less weight and aero drag has to be better everything else being EQUAL.

More to follow if when Elon delivers my new PMY.

Scroll down for video re: efficiency impact of wheel size, weight and cross section.

Here's how tire and wheel choice affects electric vehicle range

 

[TomServo]

Scroll down for video re: efficiency impact of wheel size, weight and cross section.

Here's how tire and wheel choice affects electric vehicle range

I hadn’t seen that, thanks. But to quote President Reagan - Trust, but verify.

 

[acarney]

Gemini wheels still fit on the Performance vehicles right?

 

[jcanoe]

Gemini wheels still fit on the Performance vehicles right?

Yes.

 

[acarney]

Yes.

NICE.

Lets hope I get the higher end of the trade value Tesla just estimated for me and I'll be in a Performance hopefully in 90 days or less, lol

 

[jcanoe]

I hadn’t seen that, thanks. But to quote President Reagan - Trust, but verify.

I think the take aways are the most useful part of this interesting video:

1 - tire cross section matters very little when it comes to impacting range and efficiency.

2 - Low rolling resistance (LRR) tires can have a significant impact on range and efficiency versus non-LRR tires. (Does not address any potential shortcomings of LRR tires such as wet and dry traction, ride and winter driving performance.)

3 - Style considerations aside, smaller wheels and tires can significantly improve efficiency mostly due to the combined reduced weight of the wheel and tire when compared to larger wheels.