-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Bitcoin, Cryptocurrency and Blockchain Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Crowded Mind
- Start date
Xepa777
Banned
1) We're in a "deflationary" period right now because velocity is low. Those extra dollars in the market still exist though, and once velocity kicks up then we can see incredible inflation.
2) We're seeing INCREDIBLE inflation in SEVERAL key areas of scarcity. College tuition. Housing. Stocks. Art. Using CPI as a measure of inflation is hiding a lot of the actual underlining inflation out there and secretly destroying peoples' net worth without them realizing. Yah your milk might be reasonably similar, your gas bills might even be lower, but what happens when you want to become a home owner? Inflation should be measured against your life goals, and unless your life goal is to bum around your parent's basement and see the pricing on Disney+ and Tinder Gold, you feel inflation in areas where it matters.
I highly, highly recommend everyone watch this video. Probably the best "Beginner's 101" video on Bitcoin I've ever seen.
2) We're seeing INCREDIBLE inflation in SEVERAL key areas of scarcity. College tuition. Housing. Stocks. Art. Using CPI as a measure of inflation is hiding a lot of the actual underlining inflation out there and secretly destroying peoples' net worth without them realizing. Yah your milk might be reasonably similar, your gas bills might even be lower, but what happens when you want to become a home owner? Inflation should be measured against your life goals, and unless your life goal is to bum around your parent's basement and see the pricing on Disney+ and Tinder Gold, you feel inflation in areas where it matters.
I highly, highly recommend everyone watch this video. Probably the best "Beginner's 101" video on Bitcoin I've ever seen.
I used to think like you back during my Conspiracy / Alex Jones days.
Yeah, a lot of things have gotten more expensive, but there's really nothing we can do about it. The world isn't like what it was in the 60s-80s when the US was manufacturing everything. We have competition coming everywhere.
We're never going to see high-pay with low-skill jobs ever again. Why would we when China, SE Asia or India can manufacture the same product for a fraction of the price?
The US economy today dominates through innovation and that requires us to accept a ton of immigrants like Elon Musk. Immigrants lead to worse quality of life for half of Americans (Higher housing prices and other crap), but it lets the other half of Americans prosper. It's a question of numbers. Do you want half of Americans to prosper or do you want all Americans to suffer?
The better answer is that you want half of Americans to prosper. It is illogical to think that you should live a comfortable life just for existing. There's no use complaining about it. It is each individual's responsibility to be in the half of Americans prospering. Either get a skill that society values or take a large risk and hope you succeed. You make your own destiny. The days of low skill easy 9-5 jobs that can afford you 5 houses are long gone.
P.S. Buying a lot of bitcoin is taking a large risk and if bitcoin does 20X, then you earned it. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. You took a large risk while other people just whine and complain non-stop. It's easy to complain about capital appreciation when you're sitting on the sidelines without any skin in the game.
Working your ass off to get a well-paying job, saving every last penny and then investing all of it into TSLA and bitcoin is much harder than people think. These whiners wouldn't have the balls to do it, but then go around telling everyone how they, too, could have done it.
Last edited:
I find it sad that a lot of the Tesla community is hating on Bitcoin on twitter using arguments that bitcoin bears have been rehashing every time Bitcoin goes up since like 2012. It’s ok to not like Bitcoin, but it’s not ok to think that you understand something when you just are entering the debate. Arguments like ”it’s pure speculation”, ”tulip mania”, ”greater fool”, ”governments will ban it if it becomes successful”, ”no use cases” etc are lame and should have been left in 2013.
I just find it funny people are saying it's a tulip bubble now. They said the same thing in 2017.
Is it really a bubble when the price goes higher 4 years later?
Bitcoin has only been a bubble if your holding window is short term.
Xepa777
Banned
"at least 47,000 bitcoins have left Coinbase Pro in the first two days of the year, while miners have minted just over 1,700 bitcoin."
"Institution-focused Coinbase Pro exchange registered an outflow of over 35,000 bitcoin (BTC, +8.76%) worth more than $1 billion early Saturday, according to data source CryptoQuant."
Bitcoin is NOT like a stock where at a certain point it becomes "overpriced." The higher the price of Bitcoin, the more valuable it actually becomes. I'm desperately trying to get as many Bitcoin as I can before the institutional wall of money comes in and starts absorbing everything.
The higher the price of Bitcoin (with the more HODLers like institutions), the more stable the price becomes. A base case scenario in 2030 is central banks / companies / investment institutions all own Bitcoin as a % of their portfolio. That already takes Bitcoin to 7 digit figures.
In a more optimistic scenario, a promising layer 2 solution is widely adopted (ahem, Cash App) where it can be used for fast/fee-less transactions. And at that point, for many countries around the world, perhaps Bitcoin isn't measured against their local currency, but actually is the reference currency itself. And perhaps...we stop referencing Bitcoin in terms of dollar value, and 1 satoshi = 1 satoshi.
The anti-crypto arguments I see here are as naive as the TSLAQ FUD, and I encourage this group of forward-thinking members to think about how Bitcoin (and crypto) can change the way we perceive "value" in the world.
"Institution-focused Coinbase Pro exchange registered an outflow of over 35,000 bitcoin (BTC, +8.76%) worth more than $1 billion early Saturday, according to data source CryptoQuant."
Bitcoin is NOT like a stock where at a certain point it becomes "overpriced." The higher the price of Bitcoin, the more valuable it actually becomes. I'm desperately trying to get as many Bitcoin as I can before the institutional wall of money comes in and starts absorbing everything.
The higher the price of Bitcoin (with the more HODLers like institutions), the more stable the price becomes. A base case scenario in 2030 is central banks / companies / investment institutions all own Bitcoin as a % of their portfolio. That already takes Bitcoin to 7 digit figures.
In a more optimistic scenario, a promising layer 2 solution is widely adopted (ahem, Cash App) where it can be used for fast/fee-less transactions. And at that point, for many countries around the world, perhaps Bitcoin isn't measured against their local currency, but actually is the reference currency itself. And perhaps...we stop referencing Bitcoin in terms of dollar value, and 1 satoshi = 1 satoshi.
The anti-crypto arguments I see here are as naive as the TSLAQ FUD, and I encourage this group of forward-thinking members to think about how Bitcoin (and crypto) can change the way we perceive "value" in the world.
I always found it strange that people are talking about the IT-bubble when lots of the IT stocks are up big since the bubble. But I have found that people like to box people/things/events into these loosely defined labels because they are mentally lazy.
Saying ”Bitcoin/Tesla is a bubble” is mostly a way to signal group membership and to make themselves feel better about themselves, not to actually try to understand what is going on or helping someone else do it.
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
I mined bitcoin for nearly 6 years. My biggest issue with bitcoin is that the value of bitcoin is based upon . . . nothing really (yes there are arguments about scarcity, decentralization, etc.).
There is absolutely nothing that prevents someone from creating a new crypto and that supplanting BTC, and thereby driving value to zero. Yes, I know that is easier said than done, but there is nothing "special" about BTC.
BTC cannot be compared to stocks, because those companies, in some format, produce a tangible product.
Bear in mind, for about a decade, I was a Bitcoin BULL and built hundreds of miners. Bear that in mind before you call me a hater.
It's dutch tulip scarcity all over again . . . until people realize there are other flowers out there.
There is absolutely nothing that prevents someone from creating a new crypto and that supplanting BTC, and thereby driving value to zero. Yes, I know that is easier said than done, but there is nothing "special" about BTC.
BTC cannot be compared to stocks, because those companies, in some format, produce a tangible product.
Bear in mind, for about a decade, I was a Bitcoin BULL and built hundreds of miners. Bear that in mind before you call me a hater.
It's dutch tulip scarcity all over again . . . until people realize there are other flowers out there.
Nope you can't. A lack of volitality is absolutely required for any real currency. Once volitality is introduced to the currency, then it becomes useless. Confidence of what you received for good/service yesterday can be traded in for the same goods and services today is the fundamental basis for currency. Btc is useless as a currency because it does not pass this qualification. So as of now it's only usefulness is it's unlimited creation of memes.
Well I agree in general. It would have to reduce volatility over time before it could be used like that. Just saying it could.
If Bitcoin had ”lacked volatility”, do you think it would have increased 40M x in the last 11 years?
Bitcoin is useful. Imo to understand this, don’t try to use sovietharvard logic, instead try using it. By a pair of alpacka socks or whatever. Sure it takes a few minutes to set up everything, but try setting up internet banking for someone who has never used fiat currency before and it will take a few minutes also. But once everything is up and running it is pretty easy to use Bitcoin. The main problem is that you are so used to fiat that you don’t see the enourmous threshhold it was to set up for you or anyone else.
BrownOuttaSpec
Active Member
I know Bitcoin is huge in the news right now but you guys might not know about this but it pretty much goes against Tesla's mission for sustainable energy since it uses so much power! Old article from 2018, 2019 or something newer from Aug 2020
I feel that any TSLA investor that actually believes in the mission would stay far away from crypto currencies since it is estimated to using 75 TWh per year (Comparable to the entire country of Chile)! . (Feel free to direct message me if you feel that I am wrong, I don't want to further the discussion in this thread as I only wanted to bring it to investors attention how much energy is consumed by crypto)
TSLA HODL!
I feel that any TSLA investor that actually believes in the mission would stay far away from crypto currencies since it is estimated to using 75 TWh per year (Comparable to the entire country of Chile)! . (Feel free to direct message me if you feel that I am wrong, I don't want to further the discussion in this thread as I only wanted to bring it to investors attention how much energy is consumed by crypto)
TSLA HODL!
Last edited:
Xepa777
Banned
1) Most of the energy used for Bitcoin mining operations comes from renewable energy sources (i.e. dams).
2) Bitcoins energy-per-dollar-value is probably significantly lower than traditional financial institutions (those aren't publicly available, but average Bitcoin transactions are in the 6 digit figure range).
These are 2017 arguments that have since then been further researched. Bitcoin's societal disruption is very much in-line with the same disruption Tesla presents. I think those with the foresight to invest in Tesla make excellent candidates to see the benefits of BTC (and the HODL mentality).
adiggs
Well-Known Member
If you've got a link to that societal disruption from Bitcoin, I'd love to read more about that. I don't see it; I'd like to though.
jhm
Well-Known Member
This is really off-topic. But here a link that could invalidate your assertion.
Gazprom’s Oil Unit Plunges Into Crypto Mining | OilPrice.com
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
I find that highly unlikely since mining takes place all over the world and will use whatever the local source is, and hydro is a small percentage of generating capacity.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
Please don't spread this kind of propaganda here. We have a fixed amount of hydro electricity and high power transmission lines to send it where it's needed. When hydro electricity is used to mine bitcoin 24/7, it's causing a fossil fuel plant somewhere to work harder because the hydro is being used to mine bitcoin. The net effect is that bitcoin mining is adding significantly to our global warming problem.
The environmental problem of bitcoin is entirely on the mining side. No small amount of energy savings on the transaction side is going to put a dent in that. And I'm being generous here by assuming the bitcoin transaction is slightly more efficient.
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
I work in the datacenter space, this is not correct.
The bulk of BTC and other crypto mining always follows to where power is cheapest. In the US, that is almost exclusively in the PNW due to the low low power rates of hydro. Similar events in other countries, where they go where power is cheapest (and it is usually hydro).
Now, I do completely agree with you that the energy used by crypto mining is dumbassary at the finest, but the big miners (those that account for the bulk of the network capacity) are not stupid and follow the cheapest kwh price, otherwise they are not profitable.
Similar threads
- Article
