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Blue Origin: Future Plans

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Part of the article's point was NG was set up as too big to iterate/ fail.

Sure. And there's nothing wrong with stitching together a couple of necessarily decoupled pieces of information in order to create a story, but it doesn't take a critical analysis or some deep industry understanding to see the pretty sloppy assembly by Berger. Seriously, as I've said plenty of times before, there's plenty of fodder with Blue. There's no need to Trump it all up into some less than cohesive mega-conclusion.

Since the root of this conversation is the article, if I may go back to that:
--"The Big Shot of a company set a three year goal that was pretty ambitious, the new CEO thought it was 5". Welcome to the history of space. Ambitious goals set by the non-technical leaders that are reality checked by the more technical folks. No news here, and furthermore IMHO its pretty disingenuous to intimate the whole project is a *sugar* show because of what were always going to be inevitable delays.

--"Blue blames DOD for delays", corroborated by a former employee that finds that 'doesn't make sense'. Well, if DOD was providing some the funding and direction (as they were) and DOD changes their mind (as they often do), it actually makes a lot of sense that DOD was responsible for delays. Furthermore, while we don't know the identify of the "former employee" or obviously what level of corporate information they may have been exposed to, its hard to take that kind of source at face value and so there's really no benefit in supplying that quote as supporting evidence. Indeed, reality of the ongoing delays was always going to be a combination of internal Blue and external DOD influences; why not just present the message as such?

--"Jeff wanted a big rocket and that's hard". Sure. And so would have been an F9-like vehicle. In fact, for similar fundamental vehicle concepts--as is the case here with two stage, first stage reusable by vertical landing, etc.--common sense suggests a F9-sized vehicle would be nearly as hard to design/build as a NG sized vehicle, so it is definitely a big pile of misdirection to focus on the physical size of the vehicle when having a conversation about Blue biting off more than they can chew. Related, the logic really doesn't close when one suggests NS to NG is a huge leap while citing F1-to-F9 as an appropriate evolution. One could easily contest the opposite: Going up-down to orbital (NS to NG) is primarily a simple upgrade of Moar Rocket, whereas going single use to recovered (F1 to F9) is a completely different set of technology.

--"Blue is run like an Old Space company". Yeah, that sucks for the employees, many of whom are young and eager and see all the great things their friends and peers are doing at SpaceX. But its a bit of a homeless point here, and one that certainly doesn't serve the "too big to fail" through-line in any useful way. Hell, if anything, Old Space is a series of many successes and very few failures.

--"Blue is distracted by other activities, like lunar *sugar*". Sure its a legitimate observation, but one lacking some follow on context/speculation. Like, maybe its more important at the Blue corporate level to get the visibility and/or funding from lunar activity? Maybe there's stronger motivation to get the launcher going if there's a mission driving it?


Again, Blue's got plenty of warts to pick. Nobody would suggest they're a model of efficiency, Jeff isn't a technical leader, generally their external communications are bland and uninspiring, etc.

Total velocity vs atmospheric density is the driving factor though so doesn't horizontal velocity have more of an impact than inital altitude?

Yes, of course. (Hence the apples to apples parenthetical). The point is that there's nothing materially different from what SpaceX has already done in this realm, so its not like NG has to invent things or that its some impossible task. They just need to execute.

Heating of the non-aero surfaces (engines compartment ) is also critical and harder to manage/ simulate.

Yes, of course. The point is that, as represented by specific example, there are plenty of tasks in front of NG that are far from the intimated never been done before level of difficulty. In fact, MOST of the NG tasks are simply executing on variations of a theme, many of those themes having relevance to NS.

Isn't the atmospheric breaking the main heat source?

Yes, of course. The point (as is the main point of my post) is that there's plenty of elements from NS that will be in some way applicable to NG, despite the intimated challenge of Nothing to Saturn 5.
 
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I know we are talking about Blue Origin here

I bet we could make a "Let Them Eat Crow!" game show (or at least a podcast?) out of digging up totally random and completely out of context old quotes/tweets from people that have nothing to do with the discussion.

Bonus points if we can misrepresent the quotes for maximum effect, right? ;)

Tony Bruno

He’s no Gwen Shotwell, that’s for sure.
 
This news falls under BO's future plans. Further confirmation that Below Orbit is living up to it's suborbital name. They're partnering with Estes Industries to produce a flying model rocket, 1/66 scale of New Shepard. Jeff also can't resist trying to compete with Elon's sense of humor, pricing his rocket beginning with 6, followed by a march of 9s.

Quoting a guy joking about Jeff's new toy,.............."My sister has one of them in her drawer".

Model of Jeff Bezos’ rocket that looks like a sex toy selling for $69
 
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Reading the article, I found some good info in there about the Amazon complaint. Info that makes the complaint sound completely reasonable (I'm assuming the author has a clue about this stuff and hasn't goofed something up). Anyway it amounts to SpaceX needs to pick one of the 2 satellite constellation configurations they've requested so the rest of the industry knows what to plan for.

But I gotta say, the tweet about retiring for a new full time job - that's awesome :D
 
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Reading the article, I found some good info in there about the Amazon complaint. Info that makes the complaint sound completely reasonable (I'm assuming the author has a clue about this stuff and hasn't goofed something up). Anyway it amounts to SpaceX needs to pick one of the 2 satellite constellation configurations they've requested so the rest of the industry knows what to plan for.

But I gotta say, the tweet about retiring for a new full time job - that's awesome :D

Yes, this particular lawsuit is actually plausible, unlike the HLS award one.

However, Amazon hasn’t let the FCC rule on SpaceX’s modification yet. Normally you wouldn’t giggle the elbow of the regulatory agency before they’ve even looked at the application, which is what Amazon has done here.
 
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Normally you wouldn’t giggle the elbow of the regulatory agency before they’ve even looked at the application, which is what Amazon has done here.

Normally an entity wouldn’t file for constellation approval in the way spacex has.

Normally an entity either files for 1) exactly what they’re planning on using (frequencies, PFDs, constellation geometry, etc) or 2) #1 plus some wide error bars, to either a) provide flexibility for future space infrastructure changes/pivots, b) obfuscate intent of the constellation before its deployed, c) beat competitors to the priority coordination slot, or any combination of those.

Modifying major elements of a filing, notably things like frequencies and power (much less so actual constellation geometry) basically shuffles that entity down in coordination priority. In the scenario where’s there’s no mutually agreeable coordination, the entity without priority basically has to shut down service within that operating regime. (Reality is slightly more nuanced than that)

Thus if spacex is indeed filing for two disparate constellations with the intent of only ever operating one of them, one could imagine how powerful that could be over their competitors.

Of course, Starlink leadership are strong proponents of being good stewards of space; filing for a very limited space resource with zero intent of ever using it obviously is quite at odds with that charter.

Seems like this one needs to unfold a little more.
 
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Normally an entity wouldn’t file for constellation approval in the way spacex has.

Normally an entity either files for 1) exactly what they’re planning on using (frequencies, PFDs, constellation geometry, etc) or 2) #1 plus some wide error bars, to either a) provide flexibility for future space infrastructure changes/pivots, b) obfuscate intent of the constellation before its deployed, c) beat competitors to the priority coordination slot, or any combination of those.

Modifying major elements of a filing, notably things like frequencies and power (much less so actual constellation geometry) basically shuffles that entity down in coordination priority. In the scenario where’s there’s no mutually agreeable coordination, the entity without priority basically has to shut down service within that operating regime. (Reality is slightly more nuanced than that)

Thus if spacex is indeed filing for two disparate constellations with the intent of only ever operating one of them, one could imagine how powerful that could be over their competitors.

Of course, Starlink leadership are strong proponents of being good stewards of space; filing for a very limited space resource with zero intent of ever using it obviously is quite at odds with that charter.

Seems like this one needs to unfold a little more.
Per their filing, they are not modifying frequencies, nor power (no significant change to interference).

Neither configuration requests any additional spectrum or results in a significant increase in the potential for interference to any other spectrum user, including other NGSO licensees and current applicants. Although SpaceX proposes to rearrange the orbital parameters of its Gen2 System, it will slightly reduce the number of satellites in the constellation.
Reading the article, I found some good info in there about the Amazon complaint. Info that makes the complaint sound completely reasonable (I'm assuming the author has a clue about this stuff and hasn't goofed something up). Anyway it amounts to SpaceX needs to pick one of the 2 satellite constellation configurations they've requested so the rest of the industry knows what to plan for.

Tere is a lot of overlap between the two constellations that would let SpaceX start filling with F9, and it seems like one could plan against the union of the two constellations.
 
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Tere is a lot of overlap between the two constellations that would let SpaceX start filling with F9, and it seems like one could plan against the union of the two constellations.

For me that's the big issue here--both configs really stuff up the space between ~500-550km, which is really prime real estate, which makes it much harder to plan around the sum of those two options. That encumbers anyone else that wants to fly up there, competitor or unrelated. Even with Juncosa's positive track record of really meaning it when he says "we want to be good stewards of space", one could argue that sending a gazillion satellites up (instead of many fewer larger, and much more expensive ones) is already really toeing that line. Going farther by hogging up valuable real estate "just in case" they want to put some satellites there is, at best, the equivalent of a parent making their kid wait in the next grocery line over in case that line moves faster.

Of course, certainly one could question why Kuiper would complain about the two new Starlink options as neither are materially different in the realm of Kuiper's altitude (~600)...hence my previous comment about this needing to unfold a bit more. My guess is Kuiper thinks they're trying to keep spaceX from back-dooring their way into an even bigger constellation ("hey, we're already kinda green-lit at all of these altitudes") but...time will tell.
 
I have zero love for Bezos and BO, but Berger is pushing this disgruntled comms person’s story a bit hard IMHO (Bezos Wants to Create a Better Future in Space. His Company Blue Origin Is Stuck in a Toxic Past.). It reads like a English course paper which would no doubt get an A+ with its use of industry references. But it is too slight on concrete BO examples, as opposed to characterizations, for my liking.

But hey, who am I to get in front this PR train wreck? Fight the power.
 
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It is hard to know how mush credence to put in to allegations made by potentially disgruntled former employees. Not to say there isn't some truth to it, but having seen the shenanigans pulled by some making claims against SpaceX that appeared to turn out to be baseless, it's hard to know for certain.

That having been said, the one aspect I do not have a hard time believing is that Jeff's desire to compete with Elon may be a driving force that compromises other things like safety.
 
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That having been said, the one aspect I do not have a hard time believing is that Jeff's desire to compete with Elon may be a driving force that compromises other things like safety.
Good point. Elon does it for the love of getting humans to space and multi-planetary species. Jeff does it to show the world how his is longer than Musks, although his rockets are smaller.