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BMW i3
- Thread starter gregincal
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SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
2014 BMW i3: First Drive Of BMW's Radical New Electric Car | Green Car Reports
Published: Oct 21, 2013
By: John Voelcker
Published: Oct 21, 2013
By: John Voelcker
very positive review and "city EV car" make perfect sense...
I know most of the model s owner bitch about other EV in negative way as if model S come from heaven for FREE.
I like how author describe it is not competitor of model S or Volt but "perfect city car happens to be EV at heart"
http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motora...ution-arrives-motoramic-drives-184502584.html
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My problem is that BMW didn't become well known by making city cars. A true BMW is a road car, and that's what I want.
If you look at the 20k to 35k EV they are all city car (<= 100 miles)
GenIII from tesla maybe 200miles with 35k 3-4 years from now. It is possible during that time others will offer similar range with different model etc..
RobStark
Well-Known Member
If so they need to start the planning and preparation NOW. They need to discuss purchasing the batteries from Panasonic, Samsung, LG or BYD. Among other components from suppliers.
Since they can't do all this in house we would hear something about it. We don't. The only exception is if they plan a tiny niche run of cars. If so then it is no big deal to sell a few subsidized compliance cars in California and Germany.
BTW Base Model Gen III will be AT LEAST 200 mile range. A price drop in batteries may be large in enough by the Gen III roll out that the range may be higher.
Will BMW et all offer UNLIMITED Supercharging for price of car or one time payment($2.5K)?
http://adacemobility.wordpress.com/...im-bmw-i3-das-ist-ein-gewaltiger-unterschied/
This is a german article comparing the batteries of the BMW i3 and the Model S.
BMW's battery is obviously a lot more advanced. According to their tests the Tesla's 18650 cell will suffer from depletion over time whereas the i3 cell should still work 20 years from now.
This is a german article comparing the batteries of the BMW i3 and the Model S.
BMW's battery is obviously a lot more advanced. According to their tests the Tesla's 18650 cell will suffer from depletion over time whereas the i3 cell should still work 20 years from now.
Wow, 20.9 years to 80%... With absolutely no mention of number of cycles or distance travelled. Not to mention simulations don't always fit with reality.
They're trying to sell their own batteries, obviously. They need to come with actual data before they declare victory.
Like the Roadster data - 0.1% degradation per 1000 km and no statistically significant degradation due to age, thus far.
They're trying to sell their own batteries, obviously. They need to come with actual data before they declare victory.
Like the Roadster data - 0.1% degradation per 1000 km and no statistically significant degradation due to age, thus far.
LuckyLuke
Model S P90DL
Tesla uses proven, available and relatively cheap batteries, from what I understand BMW uses the more expensive LiNiCoMn (NCM) batteries, a newish type of battery.
Googling a bit I found that this chemistry is rated at 1-2C, so that type of battery would be ok for a city car (low performance, high durability) but not for a sports car or sport sedan like Tesla.
Googling a bit I found that this chemistry is rated at 1-2C, so that type of battery would be ok for a city car (low performance, high durability) but not for a sports car or sport sedan like Tesla.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Without the cycling chart and conditions (charging and discharging C-rate, DOD, temperature, etc) it's hard to tell how well the cells compare. Plus given the i3 has half the range of the Tesla (or less) the battery has to be twice as good in cycle life to have the same durability in miles.
It's like the Leaf's batteries, on paper they are better than Tesla's (2-3x the cycle life), but because they chose a cheaper separator that breaks down quickly at higher temperatures and the pack is small in the first place, the degradation is must worse than even the Roadster has seen.
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Yes, BMW's batteries are so advanced, that they will power a clown car for a measly 75-80 miles, while costing close to what the base Model S used to cost. Sign me up for exactly 0 of their cars.
We are not sure yet about GenIII price and FREE charging. I am not worry about FREE charging for 80 to 100 miles battery because home charing will be primary source and other city charging. Also charging cost should be minimum otherwise fuel cost advantage goes in air (even with FREE superchargers, which are not in densely populated area...only connecting dots state to state)
All I am saying is most of the driver in US, including myself drive 30 to 40 miles per day (even less for me... don't have time to drive more). In that situation, 100 miles battery makes sense to keep the cost down right now (reason tesla couldn't release GenIII first... Elon mentioned that in many video interviews)
Just don't blame others when tesla has not sold a car with 20k with 80 miles (Spark EV does that with pretty good reviews).
I am not discussing battery life and performance over next 5 to 8 years (not an expert or claim that I am one)... we will see how that play out for all the manufactures
Strange... I've been driving the Active E for 20 months now (approx 46,000 miles) and have experienced measurable battery depletion... In fact, tommolog has posted the following on his ActiveE blog: http://activeemobility.blogspot.com/2013/06/when-94-no-longer-means-94.html and he experienced a measured 7% degradation. I don't keep as accurate a record as he does, but I believe I've experienced similar loss.
As for Teslas, I haven't taken delivery of the Model S yet (picking it up at the factory and driving down to SoCal beginning of November), but our Roadster has been with us for over 6 weeks and ideal range on standard charge was 188 when we picked it up and now closer to 184 on a daily basis.
Additionally, the ActiveE does not seem to experience any measurable vampire loss, but the Roadster does drop SOC throughout the day (thank you OVMS).
Now, with an 80-100 mile range, loss of SOC is a more serious concern for those of us that push that range, but at 150+ mile vehicle as long as the loss is not a gross number, then it's fine.
Seeing that BMW used my lease payments, time, and information to formulate the i3 and its ongoing platform, I would say that I question the article describing how "advanced" the batteries are. Then again, I've averaged 102 miles a day on my Active E for extended periods of time (prior to the Roadster joining our garage) and do see degradation of range (aside from my tendencies to drive the car the way one SHOULD drive a BMW.)
rolosrevenge
Dr. EVS
The problem with this point of view is that in order to own an 80 mile range EV, most people will have to own two cars. Then the overall transportation cost isn't that cheap anymore. Do you currently own an EV?
The Model S is our only car, and there is no need for a backup ICE car(if we had one, it would just sit and rot). Even if someone did have a backup car(for whatever reason), they are not going to drive it instead of the Model S, because any other ICE car just feels like such a POS after driving the model S.
In fact, I had to replace the battery on my BMW X5 a few months ago because I had stopped driving it for approximately four months. I now take it out every now and then. Why not a Model X you ask? Skis... have to see the solution for it. (Don't like extending the car further with a hitch rack and definitely don't like putting muddy skis in the car.)
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