Buying a Tesla for all the wrong reasons?!

[Vger]

Dear OP,

My wife and I have three Teslas, starting with the first Roadster in western Canada (see below) in 2010. We have watched and participated in the relentless progress of the car and company with great excitement and enjoyment. All of these cars have been the most satisfying and enjoyable cars of our lifetimes.

We are near the end of a 4,600 mile tour around the northwestern US, beginning with the drive down to TMC Connect, and including a friend's birthday in the Boulder area, Moab, Jackson, Yellowstone, and Montana. While doing an effortless and gorgeous 245 mile stretch on one charge (!!) from Jackson, through Yellowstone, and up to the supercharger in Bozeman, we were literally cheered, thumbs up and waving by an entire family in one of the pull-outs in Yellowstone. The cheer, started by the youngest child atop his father's shoulders, was like we were their favourite racing team.

It just does not get any better, from the driver's or passenger's seat!

Enjoy!!!

 

[eloder]

I don't know that the fuel savings is that much of a selling point to someone who previously drove a Prius. At the very least, the difference won't be all that dramatic. With gas prices around $2.50, I'm spending about 5 cents per miles in the Prius, while I spend 3 cents per mile in the Nissan Leaf (13 cents per kWh for me). Seeing a range of ranges among Tesla owners, let's call it 3.25 miles per kWh and call it 4 cents per mile where I live. That's not an earth shattering difference even over a year. Now if you're coming from an SUV that costs at least 16 cents per mile, OK, sure, the fuel savings are enormous. I like to put that number on America's prime symbol of excess and pretentiousness, the Cadillac Escalade.

It depends where you are, though. My electricity costs 6.14 cents per kwh and is locked for three years (from the utility, not even solar).

My Leaf is something like 1.4 cents per mile as with my driving (mostly moderate city speeds) I hit 4.8-5.2 miles per kwh fairly regularly

Tesla has the advantage of not dropping $100-300 on big roadtrips though, which even a Prius can't do

 

[ecarfan]

My Model S gets about 2.5 cents per mile. The Prius about 5.5. No not earth shattering. But when combined with the convenience of not having to go to a filling station, the five star safety rating, not having a gas engine to maintain, etc. It makes a very compelling package.

What do you pay per kWh for electricity?

 

[Jeff P]

Certainly, it does depend on what electrons cost where you live. It's about 13 cents per kWh where I live (the first 1000 cost one rate per month, above that a higher rate, mostly going over in the summer months). That's the going rate on area ChargePoint stations as well. It's just my opinion that in the bigger picture, energy cost savings are not really why people are buying electric cars just yet. If you're buying an $80k+ car, I don't imagine that saving a grand on energy is that big of a deal to you. I think the difference between a big SUV and Prius (especially the V, it's enormous!) makes for a more compelling argument, and maybe that Leaf as well if you don't mind having a little car. Of course, as economy of scale, battery density, charging speed all continues to evolve, these arguments will all make a lot more sense. We're getting close!

 

[wycolo]

> conspicuous consumption . . bad neighborhoods . . Vandalism target . . .

If you can find rain to drive in, head for dirt roads and build up a good crust, ideally the kind of clay that really sticks. Leave it on for as many weeks as you can stand. Meanwhile no one will touch the car . . .
--

 

[gnxs]

Maybe I bought the car for all the wrong reasons too, but I did try and justify it to myself.

I've always owned high performance ICE cars (still own a low 10 second 2004 Cobra street car) and Tesla's performance mixed with practicality was my main draw. Unfortunately a $100k car was not a comfortable spot for me even though my CTS-V was really beginning to show its age and was costing me ALOT in service/parts. Then a perfect storm occurred:

- The CPO program opened (P85's I was looking at were ~$70k)
- Tesla gave me decent trade-in on my modified 2009 CTS-V (that had 138k miles on it)
- Financial review of my CTS-V records showed I had spent $13,000 in fuel/parts/service in the last 16 months and that was not sustainable for an older car

So I went ahead and stretched financially to get the P85 and I couldn't be happier. 4 years/50k warranty and 8 yrs/unlimited on the motor/battery means worry free driving for a long time to come and I get to enjoy it starting right now.

Since we also have a 6.0 kW solar array on our house and on ComEd's hourly pricing plan we typically see $0.02/kWh rates late at night, the savings on fuel alone (the CTS-V required premium and I drive alot) is more than $450/month. My wife leases a Focus EV so the last two months it was pure bliss seeing less than $20 in gas costs (less than $15 for one fill-up of E85 for the Cobra and about $4 for the lawn mower.

Perhaps I'm not typical, but the fuel savings IS a really big factor for me. Free long distance travel combined with negligible electric costs at home combined to make the financial stretch to get the car practical for me. OK, maybe not totally practical but at least it's "loosely justifiable".

Add in the fact that virtually nobody I've seen post ever mention buyers remorse and in fact many state that they likely will never own another ICE car again and my comfort level in my purchase felt even more secure.

 

[ozweepay]

We are near the end of a 4,600 mile tour around the northwestern US, beginning with the drive down to TMC Connect, and including a friend's birthday in the Boulder area, Moab, Jackson, Yellowstone, and Montana. While doing an effortless and gorgeous 245 mile stretch on one charge (!!) from Jackson, through Yellowstone, and up to the supercharger in Bozeman, we were literally cheered, thumbs up and waving by an entire family in one of the pull-outs in Yellowstone. The cheer, started by the youngest child atop his father's shoulders, was like we were their favourite racing team.

I'm sitting at my sister's house in Medical Lake WA (and there is, in fact, a MS parked in the driveway across the street!), having driven from Boulder CO through Yellowstone, then through Montana and the Idaho panhandle in my 2008 Prius. I have to say, it was a bit scary traveling through construction zones and narrow passages at 75+ mph in a Prius, knowing that hitting a deer at that speed, in that car, could be really really bad.

In fact, an oncoming 18 wheeler pushed a large orange barrel-pylon into my path and I had no choice but to hit it. My front grill is now cracked and dangling down.

I was thinking that, in a Tesla, I'd feel a lot safer. Although I couldn't have done that same drive in the same time in a Tesla (the SC network doesn't reach).

Oh, and that Tesla across the street.... it's brown. Weird, no?

 

[Achilz]

The Pros are all the right reasons. You will never regret the decision. Once you start go get used to driving the Model S, driving most other cars just pales in comparison.

 

[Brass Guy]

There are many good reasons to buy a Model S. There are no wrong reasons.

 

[Ugliest1]

I said in a thread somewhere else: "Justification????? We don't need no stinkin' justification!!"

Now, rationalization, yeah, that's something else entirely!

 

[eloder]

Certainly, it does depend on what electrons cost where you live. It's about 13 cents per kWh where I live (the first 1000 cost one rate per month, above that a higher rate, mostly going over in the summer months). That's the going rate on area ChargePoint stations as well. It's just my opinion that in the bigger picture, energy cost savings are not really why people are buying electric cars just yet. If you're buying an $80k+ car, I don't imagine that saving a grand on energy is that big of a deal to you. I think the difference between a big SUV and Prius (especially the V, it's enormous!) makes for a more compelling argument, and maybe that Leaf as well if you don't mind having a little car. Of course, as economy of scale, battery density, charging speed all continues to evolve, these arguments will all make a lot more sense. We're getting close!

After gas and maintenance savings, my Leaf lease is about $80 more a month than my previous car lease.

Keep in mind my previous car leased for $87 a month and hit 42 mpg and I only drive maybe 7000-8000 miles a year.

The Leaf doesn't exactly skimp on features, either. It's pretty darn spacious with a very strong amount of cargo room, has heated front and rear seats / heated steering wheel standard, backup camera, lvl3 charging, and a lot of other goodies standard. I'd be very hard-pressed to find a similarly-sized car at a similar lease price after taking gas into account.

Cheap EVs are here for much of the country; it's just a matter of range and charging speed. Given that the Model 3 is projected to be the price as a mid-trim Leaf, good things are in order for millions of American wallets as long as they do their research.

(P.S.: OP, buy your Model S so you can support Model 3 production!)

 

[neroden]

I would like to emphasize again to the original poster that your choice is "buy Model S now" or "buy model S a year or two from now". You are definitely buying a model S. :biggrin: The question is how long you can stand to wait to get it. You will, of course, save some money if you wait a couple of years and buy a used one.

 

[ozweepay]

There is no question a Tesla is going to be far more expensive than my current car, a 2008 Prius.

My Prius runs perfectly, is paid for, and uses about $30/mon in fuel. I don't know what a Tesla will cost me in terms of electricity, but even if it's $0, I'm only saving $30/mon in fuel. The Tesla web site credits $10,000 in fuel savings against my "actual cost" of the Model S, which seems... misleading at best. At least they no longer add credit for time saved by not pumping gas.

My Prius has very cheap insurance, and I don't carry comp since the blue book is $10K. On a new Model S, I will pay for full comp and collision, so my insurance is going to be much much higher. I will also spend another $500-1000 getting a charging station put into my garage (one time cost) and shell out around $85,000 for the vehicle itself. Then add destination fees and 8% sales tales, then licensing and registration on the new car.

I'm normally a very frugal guy, and even though I make upwards of $500,000 per year, I will still cut coupons out of newspapers and buy things on sale. But here I go buying a car that will cost me around $100,000 and then depreciate precipitously soon thereafter.

Hmm...

 

[Ugliest1]

Very difficult to justify in $/c. But try assigning a value to driving electric:
torque: tesla 10, Prius 2
Regen braking: tesla 7, Prius 0
storage for trips: tesla 10, Prius ?
etc

youre just not explicitly, numerically measuring all the attributes.

 

[EnIgmA_BE]

Very difficult to justify in $/c. But try assigning a value to driving electric:
torque: tesla 10, Prius 2
Regen braking: tesla 7, Prius 0
storage for trips: tesla 10, Prius ?
etc

youre just not explicitly, numerically measuring all the attributes.

Design : Tesla 10, Prius -5

 

[bmah]

There is no question a Tesla is going to be far more expensive than my current car, a 2008 Prius.

My Prius runs perfectly, is paid for, and uses about $30/mon in fuel. I don't know what a Tesla will cost me in terms of electricity, but even if it's $0, I'm only saving $30/mon in fuel. The Tesla web site credits $10,000 in fuel savings against my "actual cost" of the Model S, which seems... misleading at best. At least they no longer add credit for time saved by not pumping gas.

My Prius has very cheap insurance, and I don't carry comp since the blue book is $10K. On a new Model S, I will pay for full comp and collision, so my insurance is going to be much much higher. I will also spend another $500-1000 getting a charging station put into my garage (one time cost) and shell out around $85,000 for the vehicle itself. Then add destination fees and 8% sales tales, then licensing and registration on the new car.

My Model S replaced a 2005 Prius (10 years old, 206K miles, all paid up and running great), so I can relate to your situation (this part of it anyway). Trying to compare these cars on a financial basis (other than affordability or non-affordability, which doesn't sound like an issue for you) is very difficult. Yes you can compare the insurance costs, or how much it costs to drive one versus the other. But I think that a lot of reasons that people buy and/or like their Teslas are intangible, and hard to put a dollar amount on. How much is a "Tesla moment" or the "Tesla grin" worth to you? How many dollars is it worth to not be spewing emissions out a tailpipe? What's the worth of the fun of driving one of the best cars on the planet? You get the idea I think.

I'm normally a very frugal guy, and even though I make upwards of $500,000 per year, I will still cut coupons out of newspapers and buy things on sale. But here I go buying a car that will cost me around $100,000 and then depreciate precipitously soon thereafter.

Hmm...

I don't make quite as much as you, but I consider myself fortunate to have all the basic needs (and then some) for myself and my family met. I went through pre-buyers angst as well. Ultimately I decided that I could afford to buy my Model S, and I gave myself permission to go for it as long as I never stop being thankful for the life circumstances that allow me to own one.

(Oh yeah, spousal approval was important, mustn't forget that.)

 

[Ugliest1]

My Model S replaced a 2005 Prius (10 years old, 206K miles, all paid up and running great), so I can relate to your situation (this part of it anyway). Trying to compare these cars on a financial basis (other than affordability or non-affordability, which doesn't sound like an issue for you) is very difficult. Yes you can compare the insurance costs, or how much it costs to drive one versus the other. But I think that a lot of reasons that people buy and/or like their Teslas are intangible, and hard to put a dollar amount on. How much is a "Tesla moment" or the "Tesla grin" worth to you? How many dollars is it worth to not be spewing emissions out a tailpipe? What's the worth of the fun of driving one of the best cars on the planet? You get the idea I think.

This is what I was trying to get across in post #74, this says it much better. And @Enigma - ROFL at your addition.

(Oh yeah, spousal approval was important, mustn't forget that.)

Hahahahaha!! Hmmmmm.... yup.

 

[kuttakamina]

My suggestion would be to wait until we have further clarity on Model X and Autopilot. There seems to be a pretty good chance that there will be an upgraded autopilot hardware sensor suite given recent comments by Tesla and Elon. It appears that Tesla is having difficulty delivering their promise on Autopilot. There is a long discussion around this here - Autopilot lane keeping still not available over 6 months after delivery

Its not a bad car. But honestly if Autopilot isn't critical to you, and D isn't critical to you, do yourself a favor and get a CPO. It'll save you $30K, and will give you 99% of what a brand new Tesla gives you. To be honest, I wish I did that.

Also if swanky interiors are high on your priority list, go for a S550 or Maserati.

 

[Max*]

My suggestion would be to wait until we have further clarity on Model X and Autopilot. There seems to be a pretty good chance that there will be an upgraded autopilot hardware sensor suite given recent comments by Tesla and Elon. It appears that Tesla is having difficulty delivering their promise on Autopilot. There is a long discussion around this here - Autopilot lane keeping still not available over 6 months after delivery

Its not a bad car. But honestly if Autopilot isn't critical to you, and D isn't critical to you, do yourself a favor and get a CPO. It'll save you $30K, and will give you 99% of what a brand new Tesla gives you. To be honest, I wish I did that.

Also if swanky interiors are high on your priority list, go for a S550 or Maserati.

That's pure conjecture and speculation.

 

[Jeff P]

I'm normally a very frugal guy, and even though I make upwards of $500,000 per year, I will still cut coupons out of newspapers and buy things on sale. But here I go buying a car that will cost me around $100,000 and then depreciate precipitously soon thereafter.

Yeah, I only make 1/4 of what you make and that thinking is not even on the fringe of my brain. I think you're way over-thinking it, dude. You can't take it with you.