Buying advice - New 3 or Used S

[yerEVan]

I can’t remember if the S’ seats are similar to the X but driving a 3 that long may be rough on your back and legs. If the seats in the S are even 30% more comfortable than the 3, that goes a very long way. You may want to even look at a used X. Those seats are amazingly comfortable.

 

[bhav]

I am fairly set on it.

It is partly because of COVID, but not totally driven by it, and I would carry on after COVID has been and gone.

Flying is not that straight forward, Turin airport is small and there are no direct flights from there, it is 2 hours drive away, Milan and Marseille are bigger but still don't have direct flights, they are 3 hours away. Geneva sometimes has direct flights in the winter, but it is nearly 5 hours away. Sometimes I manage to make the trip in one long day with a transfer in Paris or Amsterdam, sometimes I catch a late flight to London, stay there overnight then an early flight up to Aberdeen. Given I am never sure what day I will finish work, and that a number or the flights are weekday only, or weekend only, or only on mondays and fridays, there is always a chance that when I want to come home, I can't fly back to the same airport, unless I wait a day or two in Aberdeen. So I generally use public transport to get to the airport so that I can fly back to a different airport and get home without leaving my car stranded somewhere. So getting to Milan for example takes more like 8 hours.

So even flying usually takes me two days with hours of waiting around and an overnight in a hotel somewhere. To me the Tesla journey doesn't look that bad in comparison. But that is based on my limited understanding of how much the Tesla is going to ease the journey for me over driving any other car.

It still seems hugely taxing, mentally, to do that drive. Fair enough your alternatives take a long time too but at least it's not you having to concentrate so much. Even in a Tesla with FSD (which by the way is nothing close to FSD) will require you to be fully alert the entire time.

 

[gangzoom]

I am fairly set on it.......
.......But that is based on my limited understanding of how much the Tesla is going to ease the journey for me over driving any other car.

Take the advice of people here who have lived with EVs for a long while rather than what ever marketing stuff Tesla/fanboys will have you believe.

Go to A Better Route Planner and plan out the trip based on WINTER conditions (ie worst conditions), your see even in the most efficient car sold (LR RWD 3), its nearly a day of solid driving. I don't know about you but when we drove from Leicester to Geneva a few years back we started at Dover overnight so we could get the first EuroTunnel across. We than drove with one stop for fuel, but was shattered when we got to Geneva. To do that every few weeks both ways would be an absolute killer, regardless of what you are it.

Now look at how long the trip takes in a Model S with 'limited Supercharging speeds' , thats more than a whole day, and you will need time to recover. Imagine your mental stress after doing 20hrs+ of driving and than realise due to cold/wind your range is 10% less and you might not make it to the next charger!! Or even worse you arrive at a SuperCharger and its out of action - rare but has happened, and does happen.

If you don't know about 'limited supercharging speeds' this is what it looks like in real life, instead of charging at 100KW+ some cars these days struggle to hit 50KW, which has a massive impact on charging times. EVERY SINGLE TESLA ever sold is prone to this, including the Model 3 (and likely Y), there is an internal 'counter' in each car which counts how much Supercharging the car has done. The more you do, the slower the charging gets. This is also not a warranty matter, Tesla simply say its to 'optimise' the longterm life of the battery.

Yes there are some trips which all of us 100% shouldn't be flying for, Aberdeen to London for example, but in your situation driving an EV would be madness to do on a routing basis. If you have to drive get a E/S class/ 5/7 series diesel, thats what I would do and exactly the kind of trips where owning a diesel still makes sense!

 

[Godsense]

I think Gangzoom sums it up really well.

Especially if you buy a used MS, you may have no idea if it's been limited. I'm not sure if there is a way to check without hitting the SC to find out.

I've driven to France and Italy and even with a co pilot found it draining (ICE) and that wasn't with bad traffic really.

It seems there are no simple solutions really. Out of interest what line of work are you in ?

 

[Fly.guy]

I would go for the Model S personally. It’s bigger and a great mile muncher and you can get a huge amount of stuff in the back. Even AP1 will be a great help if your just cruising on motorways for long distances. And AP1 still does semi-autonomous lane changes unlike current autopilot (without FSD) which needs to be disengaged every time time you change lane.

However, it’s still a LONG way. As such, have you considered the Rotterdam to Hull ferry crossing ? It’s an overnight trip, so saves you the hotel cost, and cuts out a big chunk of driving through the South East and Midlands. The drive up through Kent and around the M25 can be a nightmare.

 

[ChickenDipper]

I’m guessing the finance options of say PCP aren’t available on used Model S’s?

 

[Gil Kat]

My 2016 S has AP1 and I have done dozens of long European runs (France, Germany, Italy etc), it is perfect. On the kind of mileage you are contemplating, even a new 3 will burn out of warranty relatively quickly, so having little or no warranty left on a used S is not such a big deal. Also: do you want an opening roof? Only possible on an S. And the free connectivity is great, traffic info is outstanding, similar to google maps but it is displayed direct to the screen.

 

[gangzoom]

My 2016 S has AP1 and I have done dozens of long European runs (France, Germany, Italy etc), it is perfect.

Dozens of family/holiday trips is very different from effectively a work commute.

Can you imagine the headache of negotiating the entire length of the M1, than M25, than to Dover in mid January weather/traffic etc, only than to find there is another 1000 miles to drive through Europe, before having to go to work the next day!

 

[Adopado]

Can you imagine the headache of negotiating the entire length of the M1, than M25, than to Dover in mid January weather/traffic etc, only than to find there is another 1000 miles to drive through Europe, before having to go to work the next day!

... OP is starting in Aberdeen ... he will have already have driven 300 miles before even reaching the M1!

 

[gangzoom]

... OP is starting in Aberdeen ... he will have already have driven 300 miles before even reaching the M1!

And from memory those 300 miles aren't even dual carriageway. AP or not, I would be shattered by the time you arrive at the giant car park surrounding London with the worst traffic/congestion still to come.

The more I think about doing such a trip, the more flying becomes appealing.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

Dozens of family/holiday trips is very different from effectively a work commute.

Can you imagine the headache of negotiating the entire length of the M1, than M25, than to Dover in mid January weather/traffic etc, only than to find there is another 1000 miles to drive through Europe, before having to go to work the next day!

Driving in Europe is nothing like driving in the UK. Imagine your favourite bit of quiet motorway and its like that pretty much most of the way.

 

[Fly.guy]

And from memory those 300 miles aren't even dual carriageway. AP or not, I would be shattered by the time you arrive at the giant car park surrounding London with the worst traffic/congestion still to come.

Which is why taking the ferry from Hull would be a much better idea. 6-7h drive, overnight kip while someone else steers. Then start the continental leg fresh from Rotterdam.

 

[MrBadger]

Wouldn't it be cheaper to learn to fly?

 

[pgkevet]

Wouldn't it be cheaper to learn to fly?

Hmm...basic PPL, then Night and full IR with the hoops involved in staying rated so weather doesn't hold you up..the rental (unless feeling really flush with loot - price up a nice second hand Mooney fully loaded??)...not cheap unless using a motorised glider and all the time in the world. And no-one sane would do the long diagonal sea hop from Aberdeen single engine so still a dog-leg down to Dover and hope the french air traffic aren't on strike again...

 

[gangzoom]

Driving in Europe is nothing like driving in the UK. Imagine your favourite bit of quiet motorway and its like that pretty much most of the way.

But you have to get there from Aberdeen (or other way round), and then its still a long time to spend sitting in a car. No one here can seriously think that kind of work commute is doable in a car let alone a used Model S with likely limited Supercharging. The OP is talking about a regular weekly/monthly trip, not a one of holiday/family run.

Which is why taking the ferry from Hull would be a much better idea. 6-7h drive, overnight kip while someone else steers. Then start the continental leg fresh from Rotterdam.

That's still an 6hr drive to get to hull, than charge in time for a ferry which is going to be far from cheap, all year round, even in stormy seas etc.

I assume OP is earning mega bucks to justify that kind of commute regardless of how they do it.

 

[yerEVan]

Maybe I missed this, but are you driving that distance every 3 weeks? I.e. from A to B, then 3 weeks later, B to A then 3 weeks later A to B again? If that’s the case then you are only putting 34k KM on your car a year (21k miles), which isn’t horrible.

The one great point people are making is the charging speeds. That would suck if it throttles you down. But as you drive it you will probably get pretty good at figuring out the best stops, the best routes, etc. that, maybe, will improve those times.

If i had to do an overnight stay every 3 weeks, i think I’d be OK with that. As long as the quality of life was worth it (i.e. love my job, don’t mind driving in bad weather once in a while).

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

No one here can seriously think that kind of work commute is doable in a car let alone a used Model S with likely limited Supercharging. .

Lorry drivers seem to be able to do this day in day out. Once every 3 weeks - not really an issue. Some people spend 3 hours a day driving to and from work - thats a commute - what the OP is doing I don't class as that because you don't get the accumulated hit of the repeated grind. Drive for 3 hours, have a 1 hour comfort stop while the car recharges, get some food, stretch the legs, repeat...

It also seems patently clear you've not driven on the continent to know how easy and stress free it can be compared for most of the time compared to driving on UK motorways.

But I very much doubt anybody is going to change your mind.

 

[MrBadger]

Lorry drivers seem to be able to do this day in day out.

Subject to very strict rules. They seem to be

These rules establish that:

• Daily driving period shall not exceed 9 hours, with an exemption of twice a week when it can be extended to 10 hours.
• Total weekly driving time may not exceed 56 hours and the total fortnightly driving time may not exceed 90 hours.
• Daily rest period shall be at least 11 hours, with an exception of going down to 9 hours maximum three times a week. Daily rest can be split into 3 hours rest followed by 9 hour rest to make a total of 12 hours daily rest
• Weekly rest is 45 continuous hours, which can be reduced every second week to 24 hours. Compensation arrangements apply for reduced weekly rest period. Weekly rest is to be taken after six days of working, except for coach drivers engaged in a single occasional service of international transport of passengers who may postpone their weekly rest period after 12 days in order to facilitate coach holidays.
• Breaks of at least 45 minutes (separable into 15 minutes followed by 30 minutes) should be taken after 4 ½ hours at the latest.

 

[gangzoom]

It also seems patently clear you've not driven on the continent.

And you will be pretty wrong, no other way to say it .

Lorry divers are PAID to drive, it's their job. OP is doing it to get to their job. I did 18 months of Leicester to Northampton, 60 miles on paper but in reality was often 3hrs+ dead time per day due to UK traffic. I hated it, and hated my car at the end of that 18 months.

Aberdeen to the Alps in any car is a one off fun/family road trip. To me the thought of doing it on a monthly basis is mad.

 

[philingle]

I did 18 months of Leicester to Northampton, 60 miles on paper but in reality was often 3hrs+ dead time per day due to UK traffic

So over 3 hours, 5 days a week, for over a year, you were putting in over 700 hours of commuting a year.. I am suggesting doing 22ish hours perhaps 16 times a year, so about half as much time behind the wheel as you suffered, and over half of it on empty french motorways, I don't think it would be anything like as taxing as your commute was.