Calling P85D owners world-wide for survey and complaint letter

[darthy001]

Who has actually been damaged in any way by the small difference in 0-60 times? If 0-60 times were so absolutely critically important to your purchase decision, knowing that 0-60 times are difficult to match in other cars without a professional driver, why didn't you test that aspect of the car first before buying, or at least wait until the car was tested by the EU media? The way people are acting, that's the single most important aspect of the vehicle. Well, if that's true, why did you buy blindly?

Some have written in several other threads that demo-cars was limited and that salespeople told them "production cars will unleash the full power" or similar.

Personally I am mostly annoyed about the free high speed upgrade that turned into a 5000USD upgrade... 0-100kph times is simply false advertising even though the car is plenty fast for me

 

[lolachampcar]

darthy,
Yup, that whole over the air high speed upgrade morphing into ludicrous mode does have a stink about it.
As for the comment about ammeters running Tesla, I kinda gotta agree but then it is those same people doing off the wall things that have given us the car in the first place. I'll take the package warts and all.

 

[wk057]

Who has actually been damaged in any way by the small difference in 0-60 times? If 0-60 times were so absolutely critically important to your purchase decision, knowing that 0-60 times are difficult to match in other cars without a professional driver, why didn't you test that aspect of the car first before buying, or at least wait until the car was tested by the EU media? The way people are acting, that's the single most important aspect of the vehicle. Well, if that's true, why did you buy blindly?

It wasn't blindly. The company advertised the car with a set of specs and people bought based on those specs just like any other car.

 

[jarym]

Who has actually been damaged in any way by the small difference in 0-60 times?

A small difference matters. If it didn't why do you think Tesla bothers selling a 0.3 sec upgrade called Ludicrous for about a 10% premium in purchase price?.

As for buying blindly - the onus in most parts of the world is for commercial sellers to accurately describe their products in their sales and marketing. Failure to do so means lawsuits. If Tesla don't want lawsuits then they should quit misdescribing their products. The company can build a car from scratch but seemingly can't tell you the performance characteristics? That doesn't add up.

 

[691]

User SIGX on the Norwegian forum found this interview with Elon Musk. Please view from 2:00. 691 hp and 0-100 km in 3.1s ... he may have confused the 0-100kph with 0-100mph time, but what about the hp, was he confused about that as well?

 

[darthy001]

darthy,
Yup, that whole over the air high speed upgrade morphing into ludicrous mode does have a stink about it.
As for the comment about ammeters running Tesla, I kinda gotta agree but then it is those same people doing off the wall things that have given us the car in the first place. I'll take the package warts and all.

Hehe I am more or less doing that as well. Loving the car and still considering the upgrade. Very much looking forward to your review on that btw

Where I differ from many others here is that I can love the car and the techinal achievements behind it and still want Tesla to fix moronic "shoot theyself in the leg"-type advertising. I would have bought the car with 550hp and 0-100 in 3,8seconds. No doubt about it. But that is not what I was sold.... Many people here defend Tesla time and time again on these nonsensical communication strategies. I just dont get it. Why defend instead of trying to get them to change before going into the mass market models!? This is not a onetime offence by Tesla. It is a clear PATTERN now...

In terms of amateurs where the hell is this new communications executive to be found? Tesla does nothing to correct the false advertising to this day. That goes for performance, autopilot and other aspects. Not to mention the automatic charge port that vanished into thin air, and of course my biggest gripe the missing seats

 

[lolachampcar]

I kinda liked the ammeters running Tesla

Anyway, you are dealing with a (multi billion dollar) start up run by a cult of personality. There is no communications director that is going to step in front of him and stop him from putting both feet in his mouth. There will come a time when a "real" CEO is brought in to run the company and I fear that day. The imaginative and fearless march into the unknown will grind to a halt.

As for helping them to correct their behavior and be better positioned for G3, I can not argue with that.

 

[AWDtsla]

Where I differ from many others here is that I can love the car and the techinal achievements behind it and still want Tesla to fix moronic "shoot theyself in the leg"-type advertising. I would have bought the car with 550hp and 0-100 in 3,8seconds. No doubt about it. But that is not what I was sold.... Many people here defend Tesla time and time again on these nonsensical communication strategies. I just dont get it. Why defend instead of trying to get them to change before going into the mass market models!? This is not a onetime offence by Tesla. It is a clear PATTERN now...

In terms of amateurs where the hell is this new communications executive to be found? Tesla does nothing to correct the false advertising to this day. That goes for performance, autopilot and other aspects. Not to mention the automatic charge port that vanished into thin air, and of course my biggest gripe the missing seats

Elon Musk did say he is terrible at PR. But I don't think changing the messaging would end this pissing contest.

IMHO I still see nothing wrong. The car has a different acceleration profile than ICE cars. If they advertised it as 414 kw = 555HP, this would clearly be wrong. Punch 4936+150=5086 lbs and 555 flywheel hp into a 1/4 mile calculator. The result is 12.84 seconds. That is clearly wrong! The car is massively faster than this. Of course to get down to a 1/4 mile time of 10.9 seconds, you would need up to that 900 hp! Personally I've assumed hp/torque numbers were normalized values even from the first P85, so I am neither surprised nor disappointed. You only run into a problem where you have people that want to drag other cars over 100 mph.

 

[darthy001]

IMHO I still see nothing wrong.

Well, thats more or less it from you isnt it. So advertising 0-100kph times in europe with rollout is not misleading eventhough no other companies does it? If you find no fault in that there is no reason to continue discussions here for me at least. And if you dont think correcting false advertising would help I am astonished...

Ref hp-numbers I really dont care, but Tesla's own software reports around 550hp out of the battery at max. The car isnt magically going to produce extra power after that. Ludicrous-mode info confirms this as well with the limit on amperage possible by current fuses. There is no debate about this anymore. The P85D puts out around 550hp at best. And yes it still beats a ICE-based 1/4-mile calculator which most likely is basing its calculations on a number of hp peaks, 1:1 with number of gears, and valleys where as the P85D has a completely different powerband(hope thats the correct english term) characteristics due to its electric motor and one gear..

 

[MuppetOwl]

Teslas performance numbers did not add up and Tesla have now removed the 1/4 mile time for P85D without Ludicrous from the webpage.

Look at the picture below that is from before they did remove 1/4 time for P85D. If 12.5 sec is correct for 85D then P85D must be slower above 60mph than the 85D to do 11.7 sec or the 0-60 numbers are not correct for P85D. I think we know what is the case.
It looks like P85D/P90D/ludicrous is the only models Tesla use rollout on and also is the only models Tesla does not specify the real HP for and only motor power.

 

[Shawn Snider]

Sounds like some people are making big poopy over extremely minimal things, if you truly care about your 0.5s, then you should dismantle your car, and take out ALL the excess weight. Maybe even go as far as getting that Elizabeta custom kit, in Basalt-whatever (Bullet-Proof Vest material, a lot lighter/stronger).

Big Poopy!

 

[Canuck]

I wish Tesla would buy all the cars back from those who complain and then ban them from buying another Tesla for life. Problem solved.

 

[rns-e]

Teslas performance numbers did not add up and Tesla have now removed the 1/4 mile time for P85D without Ludicrous from the webpage.

Look at the picture below that is from before they did remove 1/4 time for P85D. If 12.5 sec is correct for 85D then P85D must be slower above 60mph than the 85D to do 11.7 sec or the 0-60 numbers are not correct for P85D. I think we know what is the case.
It looks like P85D/P90D/ludicrous is the only models Tesla use rollout on and also is the only models Tesla does not specify the real HP for and only motor power.

So in order to accelerate 0.2s faster above 60 mph to a 1/4 mile (a P90D vs 85D) you will be paying a premium of $50,500 (base model 85D at $67,500, base model P90D at $118,000) - hmmm

 

[lolachampcar]

and it has been that way in the ICE world since the beginning of time.
Just look at the Porsche 911 lineup through the GT3

 

[stopcrazypp]

So in order to accelerate 0.2s faster above 60 mph to a 1/4 mile (a P90D vs 85D) you will be paying a premium of $50,500 (base model 85D at $67,500, base model P90D at $118,000) - hmmm

You guys did the math wrong. The trap speeds of a P90D and a 85D is completely different. You can't use the 1/4 mile time without taking that into account.

 

[MuppetOwl]

If the Tesla 0-60 specs for P85D is correct, it is 1.1 sec faster to 60 mph than 85D. If that is true the 85D must gain 0.3 sec on the P85D before the 1/4 mile is finished to do a 12.5 sec 1/4 mile. The math looks to be correct for all the other models. Example the 70D is 1 sec slower than 85D and do the 1/4 mile 1 sec slower on the Tesla specs?

 

[darthy001]

If the Tesla 0-60 specs for P85D is correct, it is 1.1 sec faster to 60 mph than 85D. If that is true the 85D must gain 0.3 sec on the P85D before the 1/4 mile is finished to do a 12.5 sec 1/4 mile. The math looks to be correct for all the other models?

Arent you mixing speed and distance here? I assume that is what stopcrazyppl is aiming at. The numbers from Tesla seem strange to me as well, and as usual its even more interesting since they suddenly removed it from the website but I dont think the math is this easy!? Too late in the evening for me at least

 

[stopcrazypp]

If the Tesla 0-60 specs for P85D is correct, it is 1.1 sec faster to 60 mph than 85D. If that is true the 85D must gain 0.3 sec on the P85D before the 1/4 mile is finished to do a 12.5 sec 1/4 mile. The math looks to be correct for all the other models.

Again you are mixing up distance and speed. A P85D when it reaches 60mph is at a different position on the track than the 85D. On the flip side, as both crosses the 1/4 mile line, the speed they are going is different (the 85D is going ~107mph, the P85D ~115mph). The two are not interchangeable.

 

[MuppetOwl]

Again you are mixing up distance and speed. A P85D when it reaches 60mph is at a different position on the track than the 85D. On the flip side, as both crosses the 1/4 mile line, the speed they are going is different (the 85D is going ~107mph, the P85D ~115mph). The two are not interchangable.

Yes think you have a point there, did just think a bit to easy

 

[Jhall118]

I had a P85+ loaner for a week. I was only able to get 4.3 seconds with a 1 ft rollout. More than a second slower than the PD. It was clearly traction limited. When I turned off traction control it would spin the tires in the blink of an eye. Maybe it was tires.

What evidence do you have that Tesla's P85 0-60 spec was not with the 1 ft rollout?

You can search the forums and find zero complaints about the advertised performance of the P85. Many people complaining sold their P85 for their P85D's.

That was more my point.

- - - Updated - - -

I had a P85+ loaner for a week. I was only able to get 4.3 seconds with a 1 ft rollout. More than a second slower than the PD. It was clearly traction limited. When I turned off traction control it would spin the tires in the blink of an eye. Maybe it was tires.

What evidence do you have that Tesla's P85 0-60 spec was not with the 1 ft rollout?

You can search the forums and find zero complaints about the advertised performance of the P85. Many people complaining sold their P85 for their P85D's.

That was more my point.

- - - Updated - - -

The biggest thing that I can see that has pissed people off is that Tesla took the capability of each motor (HP of each) and said the car had XYZ front and ABC rear. Add those two together and they WAY exceed the ability of the battery to source current. Does the PD have under 700 combined motor horsepower? Yes. Can it deliver anywhere near that in operation? Absolutely NO.

It's been posted before but the capability is something like-
1300 amps X 380 vdc or 494 KW
494 KW * 1HP/750 W yields 658 hp
There is real time current draw and battery voltage data out there but I am too lazy to go get it. You get the point.
Also, Tesla does not allow for this kind of current draw for long which really limits available power.

Apply the above to a 1500 amp ludicrous draw and you get 760 hp capability with 100% efficiency.

The first part of your post disagrees with the second. Somehow my car with Ludicrous mode is getting upgrade to 760 hp, but my motors are staying the same.