Camera Condensation on Pillars

[Pandinium]

I have a Q1 MY LR and since the cold weather I am getting warnings about camera visibility on the passenger and driver side cameras being obstructed.

When I parked up I noticed condensation behind the glass in front of the camera - it eventually evaporated and cleared the alarm. But shouldn’t the have Nitrogen / Argon filled space to avoid this - or is it a warranty issue?

Tried to take a photo but water droplets on glass
With black background doesn’t show up.

 

[MrBadger]

Welcome to Tesla. A perenneal problem this time of year for some, hence many peoples hesitation on an all camera solution.

A couple of nights ago, -3C. 17 minutes precondition on hi (2.2kWh loss - that’s equiv to a 7kW fan heater and door handles still frozen), 19 minutes drive, cabin 20+/auto, 5 minute wait for pickup (door handle still frozen, opened from inside), another 21 minute drive. Multiple cameras blocked or blinded the whole time.

tl;dr - it’s normal

 

[Durzel]

They aren’t sealed. They used to have a Gortex gauze on them but Tesla removed that, I guess they figured they would fare better with condensation without them.

Despite Chinese whispers to the contrary, they aren’t heated. People suggest that putting the aircon on in the car clears them, but I’ve seen the messages come up whilst driving - per @MrBadger - to suggest that’s not really the case, or if it is then it’s mildly effective. There’s no deliberate “channel” for heated air to reach them, so to speak.

It is unfortunately one of those things that Tesla seems unlikely to ever fix properly.

 

[Pandinium]

Wow thanks for the information - I really thought they would have had a seal and gas filled, it’s a pretty obvious solution used in cctv or out heater element if possible (even a small ring of the trace heading in rear windows, not to interfere with camera fov)

The US tends to get much worse weather, wonder how FSD would ever function without its cameras due to condensation, Elon inspired by British Rail

 

[Overworked]

As you start to enjoy your first winter with your MY you are going to find more little "quirks" that never bothered a Californian designer. The recent addition of being able to open a car door using the app because the door handle is frozen is one such "improvement" recently provided - although it does not help if the windows are frozen so they cannot drop or go back up when you try to close the door.

Here in the highlands we have already had snow and ice each morning and I can tell you that the obscured side cameras is only one of the problems!!

 

[Adopado]

Wow thanks for the information - I really thought they would have had a seal and gas filled, it’s a pretty obvious solution used in cctv or out heater element if possible (even a small ring of the trace heading in rear windows, not to interfere with camera fov)

The US tends to get much worse weather, wonder how FSD would ever function without its cameras due to condensation, Elon inspired by British Rail

Because the cameras have access to the cabin air it's a good idea not to stint on using auto settings on the climate controls i.e. let the AC take out the moisture. Some people have tried to save a little energy in the past by putting the controls into manual, switching off AC and running with a slow fan speed and as a result have ended up with misted cameras (and misted windows in some cases).

 

[KennethS]

As you start to enjoy your first winter with your MY you are going to find more little "quirks" that never bothered a Californian designer. The recent addition of being able to open a car door using the app because the door handle is frozen is one such "improvement" recently provided - although it does not help if the windows are frozen so they cannot drop or go back up when you try to close the door.

Here in the highlands we have already had snow and ice each morning and I can tell you that the obscured side cameras is only one of the problems!!

I frequently read here people asserting Teslas are designed in and for California weather. I readily accept that many design decisions seem to be US-centric. But the USA is quite varied in weather and far more variable than many other countries. Spend a winter in northern Minnesota or Maine for example and you will experience truly bitter winter, or the desert in Nevada for severe heat. I do not accept that many of the troubles we experience with our Teslas is due to the weather in the UK being different from California. Simply bad design choices.

 

[Durzel]

It’s arguably both.

The original Model 3, including the first ones to come to the UK, didn’t have a lip on the rear windscreen so when you opened the boot any standing water just poured straight in.

That very much feels like a “designed in California” aspect

 

[MrBadger]

There is also more than one type of the same weather. Relative humidity plays a big part of how extremes of heat presents itself so one’s cold location will not necessarily present the same problems as that at another similarly cold location. Where we are, our cold is often very wet/damp, humidity wise, which would cause condensation issues that will not affect dry cold conditions in the same way. This is often quite localised around here - not unusual to be driving when suddenly the door mirrors mist up, or worse, suddenly hit a fog bank that might only be a few hundred yards deep.

 

[Danny_F]

I think a lot of the issues come with Tesla being a relatively new car manufacturer All the big companies have been going a long time and have made all these mistakes and learned from them over time. Tesla in wanting to do their own thing have not looked at how established companies make cars, they have just done things, their own ways, without wondering why other cars are made the way they are.
They will learn, but it will take the beta testers, as in us, in relaying feedback and for them to take notice, then in 5-15 years we may all be in a better position.

 

[GRiLLA]

Wow thanks for the information - I really thought they would have had a seal and gas filled, it’s a pretty obvious solution used in cctv or out heater element if possible (even a small ring of the trace heading in rear windows, not to interfere with camera fov)

The US tends to get much worse weather, wonder how FSD would ever function without its cameras due to condensation, Elon inspired by British Rail

Sounds like over-engineering. Drivers also need to see out of the side windows so the cars AC will clear mist from this and the cameras together. Creating a gas filled chamber between an external part of the bodywork and some electronics sounds pretty complex and would add cost and maintenance issues.

 

[Durzel]

I think a lot of the issues come with Tesla being a relatively new car manufacturer All the big companies have been going a long time and have made all these mistakes and learned from them over time. Tesla in wanting to do their own thing have not looked at how established companies make cars, they have just done things, their own ways, without wondering why other cars are made the way they are.
They will learn, but it will take the beta testers, as in us, in relaying feedback and for them to take notice, then in 5-15 years we may all be in a better position.

Ehhhh Tesla have been delivering cars since at least 2012, 2008 if you count the original Roadster. It's not like they've only been at this a couple of years, or even 5.

Also - stuff like water pouring into the boot when you open it, and condensation plaguing cameras are things you would just find during the normal course of testing in different conditions if you weren't always operating like your life depends on the next pay cheque.

There was a period of time in the life of Tesla where they needed to get the Model 3 to market or the company would cease to be (if you believe the narrative), but after that they have basically been creaming the margins. You can see that even in cars being delivered now - Tesla don't want to halt the assembly lines due to parts shortages, so they just deliver them without those parts and claim that this was their strategy all along (even though the software wasn't ready).

 

[Pandinium]

I always drive with it on auto so the humidity is controlled - the interior cabin space isn’t condensing only the camera void. It was a 1 hour drive so had plenty of time to circulate…

 

[Durzel]

I too have it on Auto all of the time, on either 19/20, and I get the message fairly routinely at this time of year. I've even had Tesla out to inspect one of them early in ownership, feeling as you did that it doesn't seem right, and the tech told me that "they're all like this to a greater or lesser extent".

Apologists will probably also point out that the rear lights fogging up to the point of getting water droplets inside - another theme at this time of year, and getting replacements that do the same thing (to the point where it is suggested that a "proper fix" is for customers to seal them up themselves), is just the right amount of engineering as well, I guess.

 

[MrBadger]

I always drive with it on auto so the humidity is controlled - the interior cabin space isn’t condensing only the camera void. It was a 1 hour drive so had plenty of time to circulate…

1 hour drive is what Tesla SC use to say was the point it should be cleared. I've seen it come and go over longer drives but its one thing it happening, another thing getting Tesla to do anything about it, although, iirc that they were going to replace ours (or modify the Gortex flap) but if they did it made no difference.

TBH, its a predictable issue that many who have used a camera will have encountered in cold weather, yet no effective solution implemented even though 'engineering are aware and working on a solution' which was their response 3 years ago.

 

[Danny_F]

Ehhhh Tesla have been delivering cars since at least 2012, 2008 if you count the original Roadster. It's not like they've only been at this a couple of years, or even 5.

As i said, relatively new:

• Fiat. Year founded: 1899. ...
• Renault. Year founded: 1898. ...
• Land Rover. Year founded: 1896. ...
• Škoda Auto. Year founded: 1895. ...
• Mercedes-Benz. Year founded: 1883. ...
• Opel Automobile GmbH. Year founded: 1862. ...
• Tatra. Year founded: 1850. Founder: Ignác Šustala. ...
• Peugeot. Year founded: 1810. Founder: Armand Peugeot.

But you are right, 10 years delivering cars, what do those companies above know eh?

 

[Durzel]

As i said, relatively new:

• Fiat. Year founded: 1899. ...
• Renault. Year founded: 1898. ...
• Land Rover. Year founded: 1896. ...
• Škoda Auto. Year founded: 1895. ...
• Mercedes-Benz. Year founded: 1883. ...
• Opel Automobile GmbH. Year founded: 1862. ...
• Tatra. Year founded: 1850. Founder: Ignác Šustala. ...
• Peugeot. Year founded: 1810. Founder: Armand Peugeot.

But you are right, 10 years delivering cars, what do those companies above know eh?

But presumably we can assume that everyone involved in building Teslas has had experience of owning or using cars, no? If I was building a car today I’d have a pretty good idea of expectations based on what already existed in the marketplace at a given price.

 

[Danny_F]

You know what they say, when you assume, you make an ASS of U and ME

Why is it that Tesla is the only one using cameras to detect rain, cameras to control TACC and removing USS? It isn't because they have been selling cars for decades and have got it nailed, as the results clearly speak for themselves.

 

[Tony Hoyle]

It's because Elon has a hardon for AI based solutions even though perfectly good non-AI solutions exist.

 

[Danny_F]

And Elon being Elon he must be right and everyone else is wrong.