Can i put a 14-50 ? I only have a 100 Amp 240 volt incoming to condo.

[Dave EV]

So, i went to the city building planning deivision , got a hold of a permit electrician an d he did the load calculation for me.

the load calculation ended up at 88.1 ampere.

The load calc sounds high to me given your appliances. Was it a standard or alternative load calc? Can you post a copy?

BTW, unless they actually went out to your house and read labels off of your appliances, it wasn't a real load calc.

 

[GSP]

From the information you've given us, it's likely going to hinge upon the nameplate of your A/C unit. Look at its nameplate and use the "minimum ampacity" for your load calculation. Your breaker is sized for startup current on the compressor, but that's not the normal consumption of the unit. Same for the air handler.

My guess is that you will likely pass a load calculation for a 14-50 as part of the inspection.

To the OP: Pay attension, Flasher knows this stuff like the back of his hand.

Also, as others have pointed out, a 20A, 240V breaker will allow charging at 16A (11 mph). This should be more this enough for overnight charging. Even if you occasionally drive more than 90-130 miles in a single day, you probably will not do so the next day, and your big battery will carry you to the next evening without even trying.

GSP

 

[linkster]

Well, you do have the option of a 120V NEMA 5-20 giving you about 5 miles/hour of charge. It'll work for now.

Would the electrician consider installing a transfer switch for the oven?

OR, for purposes of the permit, disconnect the oven.

Install the NEMA 14-30.

Say goodbye to the electrician.

Reconnect the oven because this is another example of "We're from the government and we're here to help".

Sheesh.

Cosmacelf, you and I think just alike! Can u combine bedrooms 1 and 2 or just "make" some room in your load center either temporarily or permanently because at the end of the day good common sense ALWAYS trumps some armchair regulator/inspector writing rules and regulations to justify the employment.

 

[jerry33]

because at the end of the day good common sense ALWAYS trumps some armchair regulator/inspector writing rules and regulations to justify the employment.

Even if that's so, if there is ever a fire the insurance company can disallow the claim. This is true even if the cause of the fire was unrelated. The best solution on this thread so far is "Put the gas stove in".

 

[Cottonwood]

Even if that's so, if there is ever a fire the insurance company can disallow the claim. This is true even if the cause of the fire was unrelated. The best solution on this thread so far is "Put the gas stove in".

That's a really easy decision if a gas line was run to the kitchen during initial construction, but could be a hassle if not. Besides, a gas stove is much better for quick heat changes on the stovetop, and preferred by most serious cooks.

 

[Vincent Himpe]

The load calc sounds high to me given your appliances. Was it a standard or alternative load calc? Can you post a copy?

BTW, unless they actually went out to your house and read labels off of your appliances, it wasn't a real load calc.

Yes it was. i havd pictures of all appliance labels so thos were used.
Calculation was done according to the standard method.

2000 Sq feet x 3Va = 6000 VA
2 small appliace circuits (kitchen ) 2 x 1500 VA = 3000 VA
2 Laundry branches 2x 1500 VA = 3000 VA

since my wahser and dryer fall in the above branches no additional penalty for their loads.
Yields : 12000 VA. first 3000VA is at 100% , remainder at 45%
so 3000 + ((12000-3000)*0.35) = 6150VA base load

Now come the big kickers..
Dishwasher : 960 VA
Disposer : 900 VA

since less than 4 units they count as 100% : 1860VA
Range : 6300VA
airco : 5856 VA
Motorload of airco ( 25% of above ) 1464

total demand :
6150 base load + 1860 fixed appliances + 6300 Range + (5856+1464) HVAC = 21630 VA.
divide by 240 and you get ... 90.1 AMP on a 110 Amp cable with 100 AMp circuit ( cable is 1 AWG Alcan Stabiloy rated at 110 AMP. I even had that information )

Since an electric car is considered a permanent load it is counted at 100% . so 240 volt 30 amp circuit = 30 AMP continuous. I only have 10amp reserve.

So the end solution was easy. since i have an existing 30 AMp 240 volt breaker : throw out the oven and switch to a gas range ( i have gas pipe in place. my burners are gas, only the oven is electric (wall oven) Oven is mounted under burners. Modification is very simple. i will get a slide-in gas range. costs 1400$. no problemo. My oven had problems anyway (control would lock up) and i prefer a gas oven for baking. Besides i only use that oven 2 or 3 times a year. I'd rather drive a Tesla every day ...

The building inspectors told me that , basically , a 100 AMP feed for a large condo (2000 SQ ft) is rated for 2 permanent loads. one HVA and either a range or a dryer. That's it.
A friend of mine who has a house is in the same situation. he want to get a leaf. with tis 100 AMP service it could not be done. they upgraded to 125 AMP service ( luckily their main cable could carry that... in my case it wouldn't. )

And yes, from a pure technical perspective i'd put the caron 40 AMP since it will be charging at noght when i dont run ovens or dryers or washers or dishwashers.. But that is not the point.

Since this is an installation in common property the HOA demands a PERMIT. Permit means : signoff by inspector. Inspectors like calculating ....
By switching the oven to gas there is no calcualting. We are not installing new breakers so there is no load change. So according to 'the book' nothing is required. whatever you do behind the breakers is of no interest.

 

[VolkerP]

Is it possible to put the a NEMA 14-30 socket on the same circuit as the stove? This should result in the same load calculation.
Yes I know, the 30A fuse will blow when the stove runs and the car charges. User must avoid this.

Besides, this calls for a smart J1772 charging station that adapts the pilot signal according to current electricity usage of your panel.

 

[Cosmacelf]

VolkerP, that wouldn't be to code. And code hasn't caught up to load sensing chargers yet, as far as I know.

 

[miimura]

Where is your meter? You mentioned that your unit is fed from the 1200A panel but did not mention the meter. If you could get separately metered service, you could avoid your 100A panel altogether. Of course, this depends on the physical layout of the main feed and proximity to your garage space. Did you consider this option?

 

[Cottonwood]

Since this is an installation in common property the HOA demands a PERMIT. Permit means : signoff by inspector. Inspectors like calculating .... By switching the oven to gas there is no calcualting. We are not installing new breakers so there is no load change. So according to 'the book' nothing is required. whatever you do behind the breakers is of no interest.

It sounds like you have a good solution.

Here is one small improvement you may want to explore: It used to be common practice to use a 40A breaker to feed a 50A receptacle for a kitchen range. This let the wire be 8 AWG instead of 6 AWG and saved some wiring costs, and worked with a lower powered range. I have even seen this in new construction with a 20A breaker feeding a lower powered dryer with a 14-30R. Both of these situations caused me to dial back my charge current after popping the breaker and finding the small breaker in the panel. A 40A breaker feeding a 14-50R and you limiting your MS to 32A would let you charge at 22 mph, better than 17 mph. Consider asking...

 

[Dave EV]

Since you have a gas range already - sure looks like the no brainer is to replace the electric oven with a gas one.

It's the cheapest easiest way to get a 50A outlet for charging given your restrictions.

I still think you should be able to use the alternate method which will come up with a lower VA load. Too bad your local jurisdiction is so strict.

 

[DavidM]

If an electrician will allow it, go with a NEMA 14-30. I often dial my 50A breaker back to 32A and I'm still fully charged every morning.