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Just ordered Model 3, need to set up charging, recommendations?

ml678

Member
Oct 29, 2020
12
2
New Jersey
Because it is electric heat, it is pretty much immediate and heats up quick. Out winter (like yours) last year was milder than normal, so I mostly went with the heated seats over the heat. It was my only winter I had the car. Since I will be working from home at least until Feb 21, there will not be much winter driving this year either.
Maybe I will be much more rich by winter 2021-2022, so that heating and lowering my range will be an afterthought.

Yeah, I don't know why the Prius Prime's heat was so slow. The seat warms up similar to other car's seats because all seat heating are electric, but the air from the outlets just won't warm up after quite a while. Good to hear that Model 3's heat is near instant. Will definitely need to try it this winter. NJ winter gets pretty cold at times.
 

Shootr

Member
Oct 29, 2020
9
14
Phoenix
I don't mean to hijack the thread, but if I may ask a question:

Can a 30 Amp /110 dedicated RV outlet (that I already have but not being used) be used to charge the car? Is there any benefit (quicker) over a "regular" 110v outlet?

Thx
 

brkaus

Well-Known Member
Jul 8, 2014
7,883
6,381
Austin, TX
I don't mean to hijack the thread, but if I may ask a question:

Can a 30 Amp /110 dedicated RV outlet (that I already have but not being used) be used to charge the car? Is there any benefit (quicker) over a "regular" 110v outlet?

Thx

yes, I’m assuming you are referring to a TT-30? If so, I’d get a custom adapter from evse adaptors (TT-30 Adapter for Tesla Model S/X/3/Y Gen 2 – EVSE Adapters) to make sure the current is set correctly every time. It would charge at 24a vs 12a for a regular outlet.

if you aren’t using it, an electrician can likely easily change it to a 6-30 which would be 2x faster.
 

Shootr

Member
Oct 29, 2020
9
14
Phoenix
yes, I’m assuming you are referring to a TT-30? If so, I’d get a custom adapter from evse adaptors (TT-30 Adapter for Tesla Model S/X/3/Y Gen 2 – EVSE Adapters) to make sure the current is set correctly every time. It would charge at 24a vs 12a for a regular outlet.

if you aren’t using it, an electrician can likely easily change it to a 6-30 which would be 2x faster.
Yes it currently is a TT-30 style outlet. If a 6-30 outlet is rated for 220v, can the same 10ga 3-wire be used, and the electrician is reconfiguring it in the panel and the outlet?
 

Shootr

Member
Oct 29, 2020
9
14
Phoenix
yes, I’m assuming you are referring to a TT-30? If so, I’d get a custom adapter from evse adaptors (TT-30 Adapter for Tesla Model S/X/3/Y Gen 2 – EVSE Adapters) to make sure the current is set correctly every time. It would charge at 24a vs 12a for a regular outlet.

if you aren’t using it, an electrician can likely easily change it to a 6-30 which would be 2x faster.
Google is my friend... I understand the wiring now. On the plus side - I'll finally have a 220v outlet for my welder too.
 
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GermanGuyUS

Member
Oct 30, 2020
11
0
Minneapolis
I'm in the same boat right now trying to figure out the charging accommodation. Thinking about a Nema outlet. Can somebody look at my panel to see what is necessary?
20201029_181144.jpg
?
 

Gasaraki

Active Member
Oct 21, 2019
1,820
1,133
Syracuse, NY
Yeah, I don't know why the Prius Prime's heat was so slow. The seat warms up similar to other car's seats because all seat heating are electric, but the air from the outlets just won't warm up after quite a while. Good to hear that Model 3's heat is near instant. Will definitely need to try it this winter. NJ winter gets pretty cold at times.

So I don't know if the Prius Prime uses a heat pump or normal ICE heat but if it's normal ICE heating, I can see why it take so long to get heat out of the air vents.

ICE heaters depend on the engine warming up to heat the air, then they blow the air in to the cabin. The Prius is very efficient, there by producing very little wasted heat (that's why they use 0w-20 oil). The engine just doesn't get really hot to begin with. So waiting for that to get warm enough to heat the air would be slower.
 

brkaus

Well-Known Member
Jul 8, 2014
7,883
6,381
Austin, TX
Yes it currently is a TT-30 style outlet. If a 6-30 outlet is rated for 220v, can the same 10ga 3-wire be used, and the electrician is reconfiguring it in the panel and the outlet?

Google is my friend... I understand the wiring now. On the plus side - I'll finally have a 220v outlet for my welder too.

exactly! Of course space and capacity must be available in the panel, the wire in good shape, etc.
 

Mutant

Member
Oct 20, 2020
43
52
Waterloo, ON
I'm in the same boat right now trying to figure out the charging accommodation. Thinking about a Nema outlet. Can somebody look at my panel to see what is necessary?View attachment 603757 ?
Looks like you have spare breaker capacity in the panel pictured on the right. You currently have what appears to be a 2 phase (240 V) 20 Amp breaker in slots 14/16 that is turned off and marked as unused. Easiest solution is to replace that breaker with a 50 Amp 2 pole (phase) breaker and wire a NEMA 14-50 outlet to the new breaker. If that breaker is intended to be used for something else, you have slots 27/29 to mount the additional 50 Amp breaker instead.

Depending on local codes (length of cable, temp rating of cable insulation, etc.) you will probably have to run 6 AWG /3 cable which I would definitely recommend if distance from panel is more than 50 ft for voltage drop considerations.
 
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AxlxA

Member
Jun 23, 2020
487
333
Bay Area
Looks like you have spare breaker capacity in the panel pictured on the right. You currently have what appears to be a 2 phase (240 V) 20 Amp breaker in slots 14/16 that is turned off and marked as unused. Easiest solution is to replace that breaker with a 50 Amp 2 pole (phase) breaker and wire a NEMA 14-50 outlet to the new breaker. If that breaker is intended to be used for something else, you have slots 27/29 to mount the additional 50 Amp breaker instead.

Depending on local codes (length of cable, temp rating of cable insulation, etc.) you will probably have to run 6 AWG /3 cable which I would definitely recommend if distance from panel is more than 50 ft for voltage drop considerations.
This is the answer.
 

drtimhill

Active Member
Apr 25, 2019
1,826
2,257
Seattle
Just ordered Model 3 standard range plus (263 miles), my garage has no 240V I believe, and not sure it's 100A or 60A. I have no knowledge of electrical stuff, so will hire an electrician to do things right. I read many posts and still am a bit confused. It seems this is what I need to do/make sure if I want to have a cheap but good enough charging solution for my car:

1. Upgrade panel to 100A/240V as needed. 60A should not be enough room for also charging Prius Prime (15 amps) and household usage?
2. Install at least one NEMA 14-50 outlet.
3. Buy NEMA 14-50 adapter from Tesla ($35 at Gen 2 NEMA Adapters) for use with the included mobile connector.

That should be it, right? I understand wall connector might be cleaner, charge faster, and less wear/tear, but I plan to keep mobile charger plugged in the wall, not on the car and keep the installation cost low, so I think this is the setup that fits. Would appreciate any suggestions (or electricians for central NJ)!

You might want to re-consider not having the mobile connector in the car at all times. Most of the time you won't need it, but very occasionally it could be a life-saver (or, at least, a battery saver).
 

ml678

Member
Oct 29, 2020
12
2
New Jersey
You might want to re-consider not having the mobile connector in the car at all times. Most of the time you won't need it, but very occasionally it could be a life-saver (or, at least, a battery saver).

Can you expand on scenario? If I just be careful and make sure I always have an extra 50 miles of range not used, is there still scenario that battery might just run out and UMC turns out to be useful in such situation?
 

GermanGuyUS

Member
Oct 30, 2020
11
0
Minneapolis
Looks like you have spare breaker capacity in the panel pictured on the right. You currently have what appears to be a 2 phase (240 V) 20 Amp breaker in slots 14/16 that is turned off and marked as unused. Easiest solution is to replace that breaker with a 50 Amp 2 pole (phase) breaker and wire a NEMA 14-50 outlet to the new breaker. If that breaker is intended to be used for something else, you have slots 27/29 to mount the additional 50 Amp breaker instead.

Depending on local codes (length of cable, temp rating of cable insulation, etc.) you will probably have to run 6 AWG /3 cable which I would definitely recommend if distance from panel is more than 50 ft for voltage drop considerations.

Thank you!!
 

brkaus

Well-Known Member
Jul 8, 2014
7,883
6,381
Austin, TX
You might want to re-consider not having the mobile connector in the car at all times. Most of the time you won't need it, but very occasionally it could be a life-saver (or, at least, a battery saver).
We have a combined 80k miles on our two Tesla cars and have never needed it. Only during a planned trip to visit family.
 

drtimhill

Active Member
Apr 25, 2019
1,826
2,257
Seattle
Can you expand on scenario? If I just be careful and make sure I always have an extra 50 miles of range not used, is there still scenario that battery might just run out and UMC turns out to be useful in such situation?

No, it's not a technical thing .. just a "perfect storm" thing. With the mobile charge cable, you can get power pretty much anywhere (though perhaps slowly at 110V). Without, you need to find a charger of some sort. To be fair, over the past 1-2 years the charger infrastructure has got so much better, but it's still something to consider. ymmv.
 

derekmw

Member
Oct 3, 2016
628
902
San Diego, CA
We have a combined 80k miles on our two Tesla cars and have never needed it. Only during a planned trip to visit family.

Same here. I can't think of a good reason to have it saved in the car at all times. Only time I have ever put it in my car was also on a planned long road trip where I knew my destination didn't have an EV charger setup.
 

Lanzer

Member
May 2, 2018
206
462
San Jose
Having driven for 10 years on EV, the need for charging haven't changed at all even when the car and the charging capability had changed.

Note that when installing an outlet, you can choose between the cheap or expensive version:
- NEMA 6-50 with 10/3 wires
- NEMA 14-50 with 6/4 wires (40 amp charging) or 4/4 wires (48 amp charging)

Many had stated the pros for future proofing your setup. But some had also stated that no matter how new of a car you'll get in the future, you're probably gonna drive about the same distance on an average day, which leaves plenty of time for your car to recharge overnight at 30amps.

I had the FOMO kicking in and almost installed a NEMA 14-50 when I got my 3, but decided to use the included charger to see how things go. 2 years later I have never had a day where I wished I could charge 30% faster.

Note that the Tesla charger (and most EV chargers) never uses the 120v wire from a NEMA 14-50 setup, so technically you can get away with 3 vs 4 wires. If your outlet is far from the breaker, there is a big difference in hardware cost between running a 10 gauge, 3 wire cable versus a 6 gauge, 4 wire cable. ($1.8 vs $4.9 per foot)

So the bottom line is, if you have an electrician that charge a reasonable labor, and you don't drive more than 100 miles a day, chances are you'll rarily get to experience the benefit of a 14-50 setup. You get to save up by using the free charger that comes with the car, as well as lower install cost. Even if you have the Tesla charger in your trunk, I guarantee you that you'll always end up charging at a Super Charging station when you're on the road.
 

DaveG_NJ

Member
Oct 7, 2020
292
755
NJ
Having driven for 10 years on EV, the need for charging haven't changed at all even when the car and the charging capability had changed.

Note that when installing an outlet, you can choose between the cheap or expensive version:
- NEMA 6-50 with 10/3 wires
- NEMA 14-50 with 6/4 wires (40 amp charging) or 4/4 wires (48 amp charging)

Many had stated the pros for future proofing your setup. But some had also stated that no matter how new of a car you'll get in the future, you're probably gonna drive about the same distance on an average day, which leaves plenty of time for your car to recharge overnight at 30amps.

I had the FOMO kicking in and almost installed a NEMA 14-50 when I got my 3, but decided to use the included charger to see how things go. 2 years later I have never had a day where I wished I could charge 30% faster.

Note that the Tesla charger (and most EV chargers) never uses the 120v wire from a NEMA 14-50 setup, so technically you can get away with 3 vs 4 wires. If your outlet is far from the breaker, there is a big difference in hardware cost between running a 10 gauge, 3 wire cable versus a 6 gauge, 4 wire cable. ($1.8 vs $4.9 per foot)

So the bottom line is, if you have an electrician that charge a reasonable labor, and you don't drive more than 100 miles a day, chances are you'll rarily get to experience the benefit of a 14-50 setup. You get to save up by using the free charger that comes with the car, as well as lower install cost. Even if you have the Tesla charger in your trunk, I guarantee you that you'll always end up charging at a Super Charging station when you're on the road.

TLDR: If you don't drive much, are disciplined and/or are pinching pennies, charging at home on 15A makes sense, but don't underestimate the convenience of faster charging at home if you can afford it.

Lanzer's advice is sound, especially when you look at it on a purely economic basis. I knew, based on the location of my breaker box relative to the garage, that it would cost me about $1,500 to have an electrician install a 14-50 outlet in my garage. That equates to roughly 21,000 SuperCharger miles - probably three years worth of my driving (based on my current job).

I work on a contract basis. Last year, I had a 100+ mile commute. Charging at home on 15A, I'd never make it through the 5 day workweek without a stop at a SuperCharger and that's with being very disciplined with nightly charging and no extra driving. I'd be starting the week at 280 miles, drive 100 and charge back +40 for a net of -60/day.

But even if you aren't range limited, the convenience of faster home charging should be considered. That's why I ultimately went with the 14-50 install. Instead of 4-5 miles added per hour on 15A, I get 30/hr on 32A (the max of the UMC). That let's me go from theoretical empty to 90% overnight. I find that to be a very freeing experience.
 

lhtadbc

Member
Dec 17, 2019
20
1
Seattle
Can someone please take a look at my situation?

I would like to install a NEMA 14-50 outlet and wire a Cat 5e cable to the garage. Our house has a 200 amp circuit breaker panel that looks like this:

1PFO4xYb-AmFwEAKGACGxXl8zXrAtO2sEwlH9EUme3iwGgERx--fgPEOiTxb9LfhN2TTLUJ0j_HB_GNy-ALiC0eRfVUM6a5AVEq9O-dvMdi5JTt2k8WgZT0iSw4e9EWExQaQ04Hg
t6udLOla-4rzN39LZhpgs5MBQ0TSuMvHmgqq9pdxkpkVVucRRbepfMlUYrqgmvI7gENp5JvcuKT-w-_UFkeTmwgGWDeuP0hXFrBp3PF7THLZ7PV8oDr--ADf-WPWe-bth-KR6I4B


My understanding is that the garage panel has to have a 50 amp breaker for the NEMA 14-50 outlet. Currently the garage panel looks like this — one of the breakers is 15 Amp (used for a couple of 120V outlets). It’s not clear if the other breaker has enough capacity for 50 amp or if the panel and possibly incoming wiring would need to be upgraded.

W4X0tTRjqMLUlAFc36FDo4RwePZ7Ky5P9G3DYMr4iULidHedihdcfCGXnQBTGmN8WJv4jME9AvJ-5N_LnQvBKzn3OjQPJaQRb7H-xsOoKRsRn14AdQKVqSLLGaf6X89_usix-Bw8


This is the conduit that goes from the house into the garage:

citRGRdUlsvMX1ihsJjD7IY3dzage09cnD76du1NTyFcJ_2DrqUyh255KorvMGYPTpr-HH_XlqbMVZhQa4g3JFO-rU7fwOXKEZ3f_kHjV5ADWO3MuzJcs3inEUYBxVsqUhS2ra9m


I would like to install a NEMA 14-50 outlet (and upgrade the garage circuit breaker panel and incoming wiring as appropriate).

Additionally I would like to wire a Cat 5e cable from the house into the garage. The wiring to the garage goes through the small opening in the ceiling of one of the rooms (there is a wiring box up there):

QUZYUiJDtcBuwGoD6qb3V4HVaDfxdlixbQGOEhR-BJK-JsZQvtnPnB2fIGJJqY6f1fHNf4jhW-y6Uh0ESGX_SPc0PCMx-WvrnAFWNIR6Nvyx7WKbovE4ltHZyH0eNngpG55GRF8S


I’m not sure if the existing conduit in the garage would be big enough to hold an additional Cat 5e cable in it.
 

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