Can my Dashcam get me out of this speeding ticket?

[derotam]

So, I have my own feelings on this, but I expect the Internets will have their say. Go for it, Internets.

So here's the deal: I'm heading to Seattle Tacoma airport, the speed limit is 40mph approaching the terminal, - up until a 20mph sign. At the 20mph sign I start slowing down to 20mph because people are driving close behind me and I'd rather not get into an accident. In addition, I've always been of the understanding that the speed limit begins to be enforced at the sign. i.e. If you're going 30mph and you see a 50mph sign 150 feet down the road, you should not accelerate to 50mph until the sign. Likewise, a 20mph sign means I can slow down from the 20mph sign - in a reasonable amount of time.

So, anyway - to continue - there's an officer sitting UNDER the 20mph sign in his Officermobile, I drive past him going around 35-40mph, and immediately slow down to 20mph. There's a bend in the road after this 20mph sign, so he can't reasonably see how fast I'm going after I pass that second sign 100 further along. He's also stationary at the point that I pass him, so he's busy screaming out into traffic to get to me.

Anyway, he zooms out, pulls me over - tells me I was doing 40mph, but "does me a favor" and cites me for 30mph in a 20. $139. He also told me there were three 20mph signs that I ignored (there aren't). First, I was slowing down when I hit the first one (where he was), and there appears to be no way he can tell how fast I was going through the next/last 20mph sign, because of the bend in the road. I was going ~20mph when I hit that sign.

So, do I have a leg to stand on, here? It's clear from the video I'm slowing down right after I hit that first 20mph sign (you can see this relative to the other cars around me - one even catching up to me as I round the bend before the officer screams up).

My three choices are:

1.) Pay the money and it goes on my record.
2.) Mitigation hearing.
3.) Contested hearing.

So, I'm genuinely interested in what you all think. Thanks, all.

Video 1:

Front: Dropbox - 2019-07-29_19-54-15-front.mp4 - Simplify your life
Right Repeater: Dropbox - 2019-07-29_19-54-15-right_repeater.mp4 - Simplify your life

Video 2:

Front: Dropbox - 2019-07-29_19-55-16-front.mp4 - Simplify your life
Right Repeater: Dropbox - 2019-07-29_19-55-16-right_repeater.mp4 - Simplify your life

Ok my basic analysis...(ohh I would fight the ticket in this case too)

Clearly you did not pass any 20mph signs before you got to the cop.
Cop had pulled out by the time you hit the second 20mph sign, you can see this in your side repeater at about time :52

What we don't know is whether he clocked you out his back window or the front window.
This would be the FIRST question I would ask in court. If it was out the back window, then he can't show you were speeding AT the sign

Make sure you ask for the radar calibration certification ahead of the court date, as well as the officers training.

Don't know if you will win but I think it is definitely worth a shot here.

 

[NikeWings]

Don't know if you will win but I think it is definitely worth a shot here.

Chill.....we were both guilty as hell and I caught a lucky break.
Good luck to you finding yours. Yea, I mean it.

 

[derotam]

Chill.....we were both guilty as hell and I caught a lucky break.
Good luck to you finding yours. Yea, I mean it.

Thinking you replied to the wrong person? I was commenting on the OP. I also never said the OP wasn't guilty.

 

[jjrandorin]

for OP, this really depends on whether you want to fight it on the "principle of the matter" or you are really concerned about cost. We can go to traffic school (online even) to remove a 1 point violation from our record here in california.

Depending on what you actually make per hour in your day job, how long will it take for you to pay yourself the $139 or whatever it is fine (rhetorical question). You likely have already spent more time and energy on this (calculating your hourly wage) than $139. Now, I get the principle of the matter thing.

I havent checked the video, because for me the $139 cost means I likely would pay it, especially since you can not prove how fast you were going (no speed in a HUD for example).

 

[derekmw]

Also consider the cost of increased insurance if you don't have the option to go to traffic school and avoid the point. If so, it would be worth (in my opinion) the time/effort/guarantee to just hire a traffic lawyer. They are very good at getting tickets thrown out and back in my younger speeding days, I never had a ticket stick when I used them.

 

[Plug-n-Play]

As with most legal inquiries performed on internet forums, the correct answer is always "consult a lawyer." In fact, any time you get a moving traffic violation, it's a good idea to consult with a lawyer. Even if you're guilty, there are benefits to bringing a lawyer with you to court. Yes, it will cost you some money, but they will usually benefit you in reducing or eliminating the fines, points, or insurance hit.

 

[Big Earl]

So here's the deal: I'm heading to Seattle Tacoma airport, the speed limit is 40mph approaching the terminal, - up until a 20mph sign. At the 20mph sign I start slowing down to 20mph because people are driving close behind me and I'd rather not get into an accident. In addition, I've always been of the understanding that the speed limit begins to be enforced at the sign. i.e. If you're going 30mph and you see a 50mph sign 150 feet down the road, you should not accelerate to 50mph until the sign. Likewise, a 20mph sign means I can slow down from the 20mph sign - in a reasonable amount of time.

So, anyway - to continue - there's an officer sitting UNDER the 20mph sign in his Officermobile, I drive past him going around 35-40mph, and immediately slow down to 20mph. the bend in the road. I was going ~20mph when I hit that sign.

The speed limit starts at the speed limit sign; not before, not after. The old speed limit applies until you pass the new sign.

As such, it is expected that you will slow down to the new speed limit before passing the sign. Passing a 20 MPH speed limit sign while traveling at 35-40 MPH is a violation. I’d say it was generous of him to only write you a ticket for 10 over.

 

[stonelance]

If you haven't had a violation in 7 years, you can just defer the ticket. Probably the safest and lowest cost option (although not by much, I think there is still a $100 "admin" fee?). Avoids an insurance increase at least.

But yeah, the signs represent the max speed for a region of the road between signs, so you need to be going 20 or less when you pass the sign. I hate how low they have the speed limits at the airport, and I see speed traps there all the time.

 

[devilmountain]

About your best defense is to find out when the last speed survey was done (if I recall they must be performed yearly). In California it must be done in an unmarked car by a non-sworn individual. If the average speed is 35 then the speed can be set to 35 but a city engineer can overide based on safety issues (schools, foot traffic, residential) I forget all of the details, but here is a link. City of Pleasanton, CA - Speed Survey Explanation Typically speaking, if you are 15 over the speed limit the ticket is yours.

In California one ticket is forgiven by your insurance. My only speeding ticket didn't affect my insurance and I didn't waste any time in traffic school. If I was to get a second ticket in a three year period I would have gone to traffice school.

 

[WilliamG]

If you haven't had a violation in 7 years, you can just defer the ticket. Probably the safest and lowest cost option (although not by much, I think there is still a $100 "admin" fee?). Avoids an insurance increase at least.

But yeah, the signs represent the max speed for a region of the road between signs, so you need to be going 20 or less when you pass the sign. I hate how low they have the speed limits at the airport, and I see speed traps there all the time.

I think the key here is to not have had a deferred violation in the last 7 years, no?

 

[afadeev]

I’m not sure exactly what my argument should be.

You have three (3) simple choices in front of you:

1. Pay the fine, and minimize the short-term cost.
2. Go to court and attempt amateur lawyering, and unless you know the judge personally, loose and increase short-term costs (add court fees on top of the ticket).
3. Fight the ticket with a help of an attorney, and minimize the long-term costs (e.g: insurance surcharges, no "clean record" argument in future ticket fights, etc). Short-term costs will go up.

Once you figure out what course of action you want to take, just do it.
#1 and #2 you can DIY.

For #3, find an attorney local to the area where you got the ticket (www.motorists.org), preferably one married to judge's relative, one who plays golf with him, or at least works a lot of cases in front of and gets along with him. Pay the man, and you should be able to get your ticket either dismissed or down-graded to a non-moving violation (e.g.: parking ticket, broken tail light) that has zero long-term insurance consequences. It helps if your attorney can pitch "my client hasn't had a violation in 10-20 years" argument.

Good luck!

a

P.S.: Multiple alleged officer disagreements throughout the years, multiple attorneys on stand-by in various jurisdictions, zero convictions in ~20 years.

P.P.S.: Buy a quality radar detector (e.g.: www.valentine1.com/)

 

[WilliamG]

You have three (3) simple choices in front of you:

1. Pay the fine, and minimize the short-term cost.
2. Go to court and attempt amateur lawyering, and unless you know the judge personally, loose and increase short-term costs (add court fees on top of the ticket).
3. Fight the ticket with a help of an attorney, and minimize the long-term costs (e.g: insurance surcharges, no "clean record" argument in future ticket fights, etc). Short-term costs will go up.

Once you figure out what course of action you want to take, just do it.
#1 and #2 you can DIY.

For #3, find an attorney local to the area where you got the ticket (www.motorists.org), preferably one married to judge's relative, one who plays golf with him, or at least works a lot of cases in front of and gets along with him. Pay the man, and you should be able to get your ticket either dismissed or down-graded to a non-moving violation (e.g.: parking ticket, broken tail light) that has zero long-term insurance consequences. It helps if your attorney can pitch "my client hasn't had a violation in 10-20 years" argument.

Good luck!

a

P.S.: Multiple alleged officer disagreements throughout the years, multiple attorneys on stand-by in various jurisdictions, zero convictions in ~20 years.

P.P.S.: Buy a quality radar detector (e.g.: www.valentine1.com/)

Thanks for the input. My last moving violation was 4 years ago, so... 10-20 years isn't happening, hah! I'm thinking get the ticket deferred if I'm able to do that, so I guess that's option 4.

 

[SaddleSC]

Speed traps aren't illegal everywhere. WilliamG wants to use a video of him breaking the law to get out of a ticket, so the video isn't likely a good idea.

Fighting the ticket is going to cost court fees regardless of the outcome, and WilliamG is clearly guilty. They've even said so themself.

Just out of curiosity, who is the "they" and "themself" that you are referring to in the last sentence? Aren't we still just talking about WilliamG or is there another group of people who have the same issue?

 

[WilliamG]

Just out of curiosity, who is the "they" and "themself" that you are referring to in the last sentence? Aren't we still just talking about WilliamG or is there another group of people who have the same issue?

I let that one go.

My only real defense is the large bus/van thingy obscuring the 20mph sign until it was too late for me to react. Either way, sitting right BEFORE a change in speed limit to RADAR you is... well... not cool.

After I got the ticket, I left the airport and came back around, slowed to 20mph before the sign, and my god were people pissed off at me. Honking, going around me and cutting me off etc. I just got unlucky, that's all.

 

[NoMoGas]

I’m not sure exactly what my argument should be.

There won’t be any points I don’t think. Just a fine, and potential insurance increase. I’ll get it deferred, I guess. Not seeing any better option.

I told you your argument. It is unreasonable to ask you to cut your speed in half in 50 feet. The video provides your case (I can tell that many posters didn't bother to actually look at it). This is why the cop said you passed several 20mph signs when clearly you didn't. So, get him to court, ask him the questions (I'd be more then happy to give you the list) and then present your video and case. I've seen many, you have a good one and I'm not one to say that lightly.

 

[djroberts]

The speed limit at the 20MPH sign is 20MPH. There is no buffer. If you're going above 20MPH at the sign then you are speeding. The expectation is that you slow down ahead of the sign and that is safe driving. I understand your predicament because most people don't slow down. This is similar to the issue where the freeway speed limit is 65 and everyone is driving 75 so it feels unsafe to drive legally.

In an onramp situation where the street is a 40 but the freeway is 65 you must stay at 40 until on the onramp and then may accelerate to 65. This can create an ambiguous situation that you could win if you got a ticket since onramps don't always have speed limits.

 

[WilliamG]

I told you your argument. It is unreasonable to ask you to cut your speed in half in 50 feet. The video provides your case (I can tell that many posters didn't bother to actually look at it). This is why the cop said you passed several 20mph signs when clearly you didn't. So, get him to court, ask him the questions (I'd be more then happy to give you the list) and then present your video and case. I've seen many, you have a good one and I'm not one to say that lightly.

Where is the 50 feet to cut speed in half? From which point to which point?

 

[rickdogg82]

You are caught. Does it matter if the cop said you passed several 20MPH signs? What matters is you were over 20MPH when it counted. You could try to determine what the temporary electric sign that was not working was supposed to be showing. Maybe it said "20MPH zone ahead" or "reduced speed ahead". If thi sis the case, you could argue that it was known that speed limit sign visibility was lacking thus the need for this auxiliary sign. Maybe you can take another trip to the airport to see if it is working and what it says.

 

[Bill Foster]

Whether it gets you out or not, it's pretty awesome we have the tech to challenge built into our cars.

It would be cool to have some data displayed on the screen at the same time, speed/throttle/brake.

 

[azentropy]

I got a ticket a few years ago in my BMW X3 for not coming to a complete stop. I told the officer that I did come to a complete stop since my engine would shut off automatically when stopped. He gave it to me anyway. Since I couldn’t get the info or a video of it it would have just been his word vs. mine. I ended up just going to the school as it wasn’t worth the risk. Probably would recommend the same.

Would be nice in future versions if the video could be also be stamped with speed, turn signal info...