Carbon Ceramic Brakes

[St Charles]

The 4 piston Brembo caliper the S uses is the same as used on Camaro, G8, ATS-V (older years). It's on mid level cars and does a decent job as a premium brake setup. The glaring issue is the weight of those cars compared to the S.

If you have an old 60, you aren't a buyer willing to spend a lot on performance or range. The brakes work better for you than any other model because your car weighs 4300#, lightest of all models and only a little more than the above GM vehicles. When coupled with regen, your car's brakes are probably better than GM's mid level stuff.

If you have a P90DL or more, you are a different kind of buyer. You already spent 10k on literally the exact same car but .3 faster. Is that worth it? No, not at all. Do people still buy it? Yeah, because some people want the best, some people believe it's worth it to them.
The P100 is even more impractical from a financial standpoint. And here's the thing, the braking gets worse because the P100d is 700lbs heavier than the 60. So you do have a downside.

With the CC brakes you get nothing but benefits. Better braking, cleaner, better looking, faster and more range. Looking at what people are spending for a car over 120k for nothing but performance (and sometimes worse range), it's kind of a no brainer at the right price point for people that like to go fast. I'm actually surprised Elon hasn't offered it already as an upgrade.

So you say they are the best? You realize that almost every driver who tracks their car will pull off their Overly expensive Carbon Ceramic rotors and run Steel, right? No, they are not the best, they are expensive, very expensive. About the only people who run ceramics on the track are those who don't have to worry about money or are sponsored.

On top of that, ceramics are *sugar* on the street and only work properly once warmed up. I don't think there are many on this forum who will take the time to adequately warm up their brakes for that tough daily commute to work. The solution is to spend $300 on a different pad compound. Not $12,000 on new rotors.

Finally, this "you clearly want the best, right?" argument is pretty damn insulting. I sincerely hope you are not attached to a vendor.

 

[James Anders]

It's really about the weight reduction. Once combined with CF wheel rims the gains should be impressive.

Along with the cost.

 

[GregKo]

As the OP... I just want to know who has put CCs on their Tesla and what was their thoughts.

I have CCs on my Porsche and they work great when cold and never dust my wheels. That said, the vehicle came with them and I have no idea how it would drive with standard rotors other then I am sure they would dust.

Both of my new Teslas are p100d and are actually as quick and quicker then my Porsche, but do not have CCs. I just want to know real hand experience from folks who put these brakes on their Teslas.

Greg

 

[lolachampcar]

I think there is some confusion between Carbon/Ceramic (Z06, McLaren, Porsche, etc which have good cold performance and degrade under extreme use) and Carbon/Carbon brakes (F1, ChampCar, WSC,etc which have horrible cold performance and excel at temperature).

Carbon/Ceramic are used for street applications as they can (sometimes) save weight but, more importantly, look the bit and dust about 10% of steel. It is not uncommon for street C/Cer brakes to go 100K miles if the car is not tracked.

I went 10 lbs per corner down on wheel weight (and rotational inertia) but could not bring myself to do rotors/pads given the money and how little the brakes are used on my MS. That said, they would look neat!

 

[Zooomer]

So you say they are the best? You realize that almost every driver who tracks their car will pull off their Overly expensive Carbon Ceramic rotors and run Steel, right? No, they are not the best, they are expensive, very expensive. About the only people who run ceramics on the track are those who don't have to worry about money or are sponsored.

On top of that, ceramics are *sugar* on the street and only work properly once warmed up. I don't think there are many on this forum who will take the time to adequately warm up their brakes for that tough daily commute to work. The solution is to spend $300 on a different pad compound. Not $12,000 on new rotors.

Finally, this "you clearly want the best, right?" argument is pretty damn insulting. I sincerely hope you are not attached to a vendor.

You're right. Guys who track their cars pull off the CC and install normal brakes. They do this because replacing 6 grand of rotors frequently gets old. Do you know guys who track their cars remove their rear seats? Should we talk about that as a mod or add it to the discussion when people ask whether to get the upgraded seats? Of course not because it has no bearing in the discussion. No one here is track racing their vehicle.

CC brakes on the S will last a lifetime, just like the regular brakes. They won't squeak like the S brakes either.
And yes, you could replace the pads on the S but we're not talking about the same thing. Pads aren't going to increase your range or make your car faster or handle better. CC rotors will.

Bishoppeak already pointed out that his CC brakes are wonderful and require zero heating time. The old versions of these brakes did. The new stuff doesn't.

Charles, I spent 8k on OZ rims because I wanted them lighter. I believe they are the 'best' with the goal in mind of making the car faster. We're discussing physics and potential car upgrades. Why you find this insulting, I have no idea??

 

[GregKo]

Zoomer,

Which OZ rims did you get? How much do they weigh? Also, you mentioned earlier that you were waiting for a new CC brand thats under 10k to come out. Do you have any more info on that?

Thanks
Greg

 

[lolachampcar]

The C/Cer brakes on my McLaren squeak

 

[St Charles]

You're right. Guys who track their cars pull off the CC and install normal brakes. They do this because replacing 6 grand of rotors frequently gets old. Do you know guys who track their cars remove their rear seats? Should we talk about that as a mod or add it to the discussion when people ask whether to get the upgraded seats? Of course not because it has no bearing in the discussion. No one here is track racing their vehicle.

CC brakes on the S will last a lifetime, just like the regular brakes. They won't squeak like the S brakes either.
And yes, you could replace the pads on the S but we're not talking about the same thing. Pads aren't going to increase your range or make your car faster or handle better. CC rotors will.

Bishoppeak already pointed out that his CC brakes are wonderful and require zero heating time. The old versions of these brakes did. The new stuff doesn't.

Charles, I spent 8k on OZ rims because I wanted them lighter. I believe they are the 'best' with the goal in mind of making the car faster. We're discussing physics and potential car upgrades. Why you find this insulting, I have no idea??

"You want the best, don't you?" is an appeal to emotion and a logical fallacy.
"A P90DL driver is..." is a propositional fallacy.

I wrote a really long and involved post for the rest of the above but I think it would be best to let it be. I don't believe that many are going to subject their Model S to the conditions where CC brake rotors would provide any tangible benefit over a better pad compound on the OEM brake system. I believe the problems the Model S brake system has can be solved with a low dust/high temp street pad. I don't feel that I am alone in this belief. that said, if you want the look of CC rotors and have that kind of scratch, fine.

 

[Zooomer]

I went with OZ rims from Tire Rack. I considered the TSportline rims until I found the OZ's. And being honest, I like the look of the TS 115's better than the OZ's but I couldn't get past the weight. Not to mention I really like how Tire Rack completes the experience with sensors, mounting, etc. $9136.96 to my door mounted, balanced, sensors, lugs. http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/Whee...lectedRear=W04068004MG&wheelFinish=Matte+Grey

Weight totals:
Stock 140#
TS 117 117#
TS 115 107#
OZ Zues 95#

I don't have more info on the CC brakes, sorry.

 

[lolachampcar]

TSWs are significantly cheaper (like 1/2 what Tesla gets for their 21" option and I put Pilot Super Sports on the TSWs) and get you approximately 40 lbs off stock Tesla weight.
2015 P85D

 

[GregKo]

Zoomer,

Thanks. Great info. I am going with 19" wheels for the S and 20" for the X. As everyday cars, I want more rubber... Tire rack has a wheel at 19" thats 23lbs. I believe the slipstream tesla wheels are 30.2 lbs in the 19" size... so only 7lbs per corner of loss... I also love the slipstream wheel look... So, unless there is a bigger weight loss, I'll keep them. Which brings me back to those rotors...

Greg

 

[InsaneDriver]

Zoomer,

Thanks. Great info. I am going with 19" wheels for the S and 20" for the X. As everyday cars, I want more rubber... Tire rack has a wheel at 19" thats 23lbs. I believe the slipstream tesla wheels are 30.2 lbs in the 19" size... so only 7lbs per corner of loss... I also love the slipstream wheel look... So, unless there is a bigger weight loss, I'll keep them. Which brings me back to those rotors...

Greg

weight is everything. The combined loss from wheels and rotors will improve range and acceleration. Don't know the numbers though.

When I drag raced my heavily modified corvette (408 CID supercharged stroker) , always put on a set of 17" wheels (until I a put a Wilwood big brake kit on) and the 17" no longer fit.

I haven't done anything to my P85DL, but the MX P100D that's on order will get lighter wheels and potentially a lighter brake package as that will be our road trip vehicle and maximizing range even if by only a few miles will be worth it to us. More range, less Supercharger time.

And although not rotational weight, I'm getting back on the program now that all the holiday eating is over!

Finally my last little bit.

The OP just wanted to know what experience others have had with C/C brakes. Amazing the number of people who attack and rant with pure opinion and conjecture. He's not spending your money or inheritance, individuality. Good luck with whatever YOU CHOOSE to do.

 

[GregKo]

Thanks InsaneDriver. Working on both wheels and brake options. Picking up both 100s on Monday!

 

[The Duke]

So you say they are the best?
On top of that, ceramics are *sugar* on the street and only work properly once warmed up. I don't think there are many on this forum who will take the time to adequately warm up their brakes for that tough daily commute to work. The solution is to spend $300 on a different pad compound. Not $12,000 on new rotors.

Enough of this mis-information. Contact Lyndall Brakes, they do motorcycles. I have run their carbon/ceramic for a year on my bike. In the rain and when cold the ceramics do better than stock discs. There is no warm up time. There used to be before the street emphasis on carbon/ceramic forced better pad compounds. The carbon/ceramics have a noticeably more consistent feel from wet and cold to very hot.

 

[lolachampcar]

My Zero brakes SUCK. Thanks for the recommendation. That would be a perfect solution.

 

[McRat]

You're right. Guys who track their cars pull off the CC and install normal brakes. They do this because replacing 6 grand of rotors frequently gets old. Do you know guys who track their cars remove their rear seats? Should we talk about that as a mod or add it to the discussion when people ask whether to get the upgraded seats? Of course not because it has no bearing in the discussion. No one here is track racing their vehicle.

CC brakes on the S will last a lifetime, just like the regular brakes. They won't squeak like the S brakes either.
And yes, you could replace the pads on the S but we're not talking about the same thing. Pads aren't going to increase your range or make your car faster or handle better. CC rotors will.

Bishoppeak already pointed out that his CC brakes are wonderful and require zero heating time. The old versions of these brakes did. The new stuff doesn't.

Charles, I spent 8k on OZ rims because I wanted them lighter. I believe they are the 'best' with the goal in mind of making the car faster. We're discussing physics and potential car upgrades. Why you find this insulting, I have no idea??

They pull the OEM CC brakes off because in many orgs, it is illegal to run them in sportsman class competition.

There is no reason to remove engineered carbon ceramic brakes from a modern car. Aftermarket kluge kits perhaps.

But the power and fade resistance of modern ferrous rotors or bi-metal is very, very good, and will exceed anything a Tesla really needs.

 

[St Charles]

Enough of this mis-information. Contact Lyndall Brakes, they do motorcycles. I have run their carbon/ceramic for a year on my bike. In the rain and when cold the ceramics do better than stock discs. There is no warm up time. There used to be before the street emphasis on carbon/ceramic forced better pad compounds. The carbon/ceramics have a noticeably more consistent feel from wet and cold to very hot.

That may be true...for a motorcycle.

Regardless, let's assume for a moment that all the performance issues with cold CC rotors have been solved. Is it worth the huge price increase when a simple pad upgrade would provide 95% of the performance for 5% the cost?

 

[DoctorJJ]

That may be true...for a motorcycle.

Regardless, let's assume for a moment that all the performance issues with cold CC rotors have been solved. Is it worth the huge price increase when a simple pad upgrade would provide 95% of the performance for 5% the cost?

Is anyone really looking at these for the braking performance?? I thought everyone was wanting these for the decreased rotational mass.

 

[Nismode]

So no updates with anyone biting the bullet and getting a set?

 

[Duke of Alinor]

I have found a couple of Porsche owners with CMC brakes, both say "much better than iron".

I cannot afford to change at this time, but plan to do so.

"That may be true...for a motorcycle" I do not like this comment. I use this bike on a daily basis rain or shine. If you do not own the equipment or have ridden a bike that has CMC brakes kindly refrain from posting a comment on them. As to comparing motorcycle and car brakes, the brakes do not know what they are stopping. Feel at the fingers is much better than feel at the foot. They directly cross over in all other respects.