I believe you're forgetting one aspect that has a part to play here: companies don't have infinite resources. All the companies I know have way less engineers than the ideas and ambitions they have. Everything must be prioritized based on a few factors, profitability / return on investment always ranking quite high. A CCS retrofit for older cars doesn't sell new cars, and I'm not even sure it makes existing clients more inclined to buy another Tesla in the future. It's mostly a nice to have. I totally understand why it doesn't get prioritized, even though personally I'M a bit frustrated that it doesn't come out since I need it.
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CCS Retrofit Availability (2023)
- Thread starter Dirtman16
- Start date
if this were the case, new cars wouldn't have the capability. I believe there is no justification for you pessimistic conclusion.
If you've ever made products, there are priorities for resources and, most likely, Tesla is just focusing on other priorities such as making a NACS - CCS adapter and developing billing and accounting processes for all of the new cars that will soon be sharing the Supercharger network. Or, perhaps supercharging the expansion of the Supercharger network to be able to handle the massive load of new cars (all cars in the very near future) that will be needing it.
I think you have diagnosed the problem. S & X solution was designed for Europe retrofit.upgraded US Charge Port is probably the same as current S & X.
I suspect early 3 & Y have an issue with the Charge Port to Internal Charger cables or the internal chargers themselves that make the process too cumbersome or expensive.
Don’t/didn’t S and X for europe already come with CCS charge ports installed? And they were offered an adaptor to use the NACS adaptor TO the CCS port already in the car?
Yes, on newer cars.
No.
The ports of the cars in Europe never had the NACS plug. (Remember that NA stands for North America in that acronym.) Their ports on the older cars were just a Type2 plug, and the adapter they got was to adapt from the CCS2 plug on the Superchargers to the Type2 (Mennekes) port on the cars.
Thanks for the clarification. But what I was trying to say is wasn’t there ALSO a NACS TO CCS adaptor? I’m pretty sure I’ve seem an example somewhere. Maybe it was third party. Meaning one sticks the MALE NACS power plug into the adaptor and THEN sticks the other end the CCS male end into the female CCS in the car. Just because NACS has NA in the name doesn’t mean it can’t be used anywhere else.
Well, that and I think Japan and maybe one other place are the only places it exists.
Ah, for CCS1. Well, this does sort-of exist as part of the retrofitted Superchargers in North America where Tesla has put the "Magic Dock" accessory on them. That Magic Dock is the kind of adapter you are describing so that CCS1 cars can use the Superchargers.
Again, not what I meant.. this is what I was trying to describe. I’ll continue to blame MY ESL
CCS2 Retrofit For Older Tesla Model S/X In Europe Now Cheaper
Thanks to European Tesla clubs, who negotiated with Tesla, the retrofit of older Model S/X in Europe to handle CCS DC charging become cheaper - €299.
insideevs.com
Tesla presents CCS adapters for Model S & X - electrive.com
Tesla is now offering the promised CCS adapters for Model S and Model X. The Tesla website for Germany states that all models manufactured since 1 May have the necessary on-board electrical equipment to be charged via a CCS adapter on CCS charging stations. All customers whose vehicles were...
www.electrive.com
Those are the Europe adapters I described. They are going from CCS2 to Type2 (Mennekes). There is no version of NACS on either end of that.
It would also help if you would specify whether you are talking about CCS1 or CCS2. They are two different plug types that exist in different parts of the world. NACS is the Tesla proprietary plug shape that the North American cars use. It doesn't exist in Europe.
so is the NACS TO CCS adaptor really only mean so that other cars in NA could use what, tesla destination chargers or home chargers?
No. Tesla destination chargers or home chargers are only AC charging, not DC fast charging. It couldn't work if you tried to adapt that to a CCS1 plug, which is DC only. The only purpose for it is the Magic Dock that I mentioned earlier, where it takes the NACS plug on a Tesla (TM) Supercharger and converts it to CCS1 for cars like the Rivian or Ford Lightning or something to use.
So, when I’ve seen NON tesla charging at Tesla Destination chargers, like a VW ID4, Smart Electric, Ford Mach-E, what have they been using?
It's an adapter from NACS to J1772. That is not CCS1. There are a few versions of that, under names like TeslaTap, and Lectron sells one.
The parts already exist for new cars - the effort would consist of dropping them in a box and shipping them. So simple, even an MBA could figure it out.
V3 superchargers can speak CCS natively and the first cars with the CCS chip were, winter of 2021-ish? Clearly Tesla has been hedging their bets that they might get legislated to support CCS in North America. Now they've all but won the standards war, but so far seem perfectly happy to leave the better part of a million customers high and dry with cars that don't support it.
My car won't work with existing parts unless you also replace the charge port, otherwise it requires the "bundle of wires and resistors etc". Everything always looks easy until you try to do it and get into the details...
Tesla's original plans were always to support public standards. However, the public standards bodies used ratification as a weapon against Tesla so Tesla went their own way by necessity.
The Model S was originally, per Tesla folks at its initial ride-and-drive event in Fremont, CA, intended to use the same signaling as CCS but only require a mechanical adapter. My understanding is that the CCS folks changed the rules obsoleting this plan.
It had little, if anything, to do with any legislation.
I don't care if the charge port needs to be swapped too, but obviously it would be vastly less wasteful (Tesla is trying to save the planet...right?) and probably safer not to touch any of the HV stuff. Tesla obviously has access to the CAD and PCB layout files, so re-spinning the v4 PCB into a v3.5 part seems pretty trivial.
Much like that funny (but likely fabricated) story about a new hire fixing a software bug that had been pissing him off as a user for years, then promptly quitting, I could have done an undergraduate degree in electronics engineering, gotten on as an intern with Tesla and made my own ECU in less time than it seems to be taking them.
Late note - South Korea Teslas use NACS connections. Tesla offered a CCS to NACS adapter in that market a year or so before the US. There was a small market of South Koreans selling and shipping the adapter to North America customers. That worked for owners with CCS-ready cars.
There was also a third-party vendor selling “smart” CCS to NACS adapter. The device talked CCS to the charger and CHAdeMO to the Tesla. It could only provide 50 KW.
CHAdeMO is a supported dialect, Tesla sold (don’t know if they still do) a CHAdeMO adapter. That was limited to 50 KW, the CHAdeMO ceiling. There were protests when early Model 3 didn’t support CHAdeMO, so Tesla back-ported it from S & X.
There was also a third-party vendor selling “smart” CCS to NACS adapter. The device talked CCS to the charger and CHAdeMO to the Tesla. It could only provide 50 KW.
CHAdeMO is a supported dialect, Tesla sold (don’t know if they still do) a CHAdeMO adapter. That was limited to 50 KW, the CHAdeMO ceiling. There were protests when early Model 3 didn’t support CHAdeMO, so Tesla back-ported it from S & X.
RayK
Active Member
I was one of those that used the South Korean middleman to obtain the CCS1 adapter before it was offered here. (Still haven't done my ECU swap and bundle of wires but that's another story.)
Tesla's CHAdeMO adapter has been off the US market since fall 2021. Model 3s were not able to use the CHAdeMO adapter until a software update was released around July 2019 (2019.24.1).
I purchased the Tesla CHAdeMO adapter in 2017. Periodic SC firmware updates improved odds of successful connection, likely due to DCFC vendor protocol variations similar to CCS today.
The one time I needed the adapter - JFK cell phone lot April 2023, before I had the CCS upgrade - it was in my garage after an excessive frunk cleanout.
That experience demonstrated the importance of the Tesla CCS upgrade. The lot’s DCFC had CCS and CHAdeMO connectors. They also had a “Tesla adapter” that simply transposed wires with no protocol translation. Since my car couldn’t handle native CCS, the charge session failed during negotiation.
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