Certified installer inflated costs

[walla2]

I am being quoted $33k for a single powerwall by a certified installer. They are the only one in my region making it impossible to get another quote. In addition they want $3.80 per W which is higher than most solar only installers in the region. This is because they are trying to install panels, microinverters and then the powerwall but this doesn't make sense to me because the powerwall has an inverter already.

So the final quote is over $75k for a 10 kW system with one powerwall. The return on investment is estimated to be over 23 years...

 

[jjrandorin]

Sounds to me that they dont actually want to do your job, which is not all that uncommon in the construction industry. Perhaps you should be considering battery storage other than a powerwall, if you dont like this pricing and want to use a different supplier.

Other than that, companies are going to charge what they are going to charge, so unless this is just a thread to vent or something, there isnt anything else anyone can offer other than sympathy.

 

[h2ofun]

I am being quoted $33k for a single powerwall by a certified installer. They are the only one in my region making it impossible to get another quote. In addition they want $3.80 per W which is higher than most solar only installers in the region. This is because they are trying to install panels, microinverters and then the powerwall but this doesn't make sense to me because the powerwall has an inverter already.

So the final quote is over $75k for a 10 kW system with one powerwall. The return on investment is estimated to be over 23 years...

I paid that for 2, and was still way too high

 

[walla2]

Sounds to me that they dont actually want to do your job, which is not all that uncommon in the construction industry. Perhaps you should be considering battery storage other than a powerwall, if you dont like this pricing and want to use a different supplier.

Other than that, companies are going to charge what they are going to charge, so unless this is just a thread to vent or something, there isnt anything else anyone can offer other than sympathy.

Well this is about the route Tesla has chosen to use certified installers instead of direct contracting like they do in some areas. More recently they have stated the plan to move to more certified installers. Tesla online quotes around $18,000 for two powerwalls installed vs the $33,000 the certified installer is quoting me. $15,000 is a lot of upcharge for labor and the privilege of working with a "certified" team. This type of upcharging almost makes regular car dealers look bad. Almost.

And no, they do want to do it. But at these rates, I will likely have to go some other route. If the certified installer route drives customers away from Tesla Solar systems, how is that a good model for that aspect of their Energy business?

 

[MP3Mike]

This is because they are trying to install panels, microinverters and then the powerwall but this doesn't make sense to me because the powerwall has an inverter already.

A Powerwall does not have a PV inverter. (However, a Powerwall+ does have a PV inverter, as does the Powerwall 3.)

 

[jjrandorin]

And no, they do want to do it. But at these rates, I will likely have to go some other route.

When a contractor has too much business, or for some other reason does not want to take a job, most of the time they will not look you in the eye and say "I dont want this job / I dont want your business" (unless you give them a direct reason to do so).

What they WILL do, however, is price the project in such a way that either you wont do it because its wayy too expensive, or if you say "yes" anyway, the number they are billing you will make up for the fact they didnt want to do it for some reason.

So, TL ; DR, they have priced the job in such a way that if you say yes, then yes they want it, but so far over market to get you to say "no".

 

[Matt-FL]

Real world example for you. Tesla installed my system (20.4kw + 4 powerwalls). Ordered 6/21, installed 8/22. Tesla has since exited my area because my utility's requirements were too stringent (that's the reason why there was 14 months between order and install).

Now my area is services by a third party installer. Same equipment when priced on Tesla.com, but now at a (no joke) 50% price increase from what I paid one year ago.

My thought is that some third-party installers want to make excess money off the install + get a sizeable (or the entire portion) of the 30% tax credit. I think solar right now is where pool companies were in 2021, so many jobs they can charge whatever they want.

If I had seen the prices where they are now, I would have laughed for a minute or two, then gone on with my life without considering solar for another few years.

 

[walla2]

A Powerwall does not have a PV inverter. (However, a Powerwall+ does have a PV inverter, as does the Powerwall 3.)

They are installing powerwall 3...

 

[GregBallantyne]

They are installing powerwall 3...

Check what their quote is for installing 2 PW2 instead. That PW3 quote sounds more like a 2 PW2 quote. Then you would have twice the kwh storage, and the same level of power feed. Better system.

 

[Jeremy3292]

It's just simple math: a middle man vs a manufacturer installing it. Tesla is the cheapest by far for solar and/or battery storage. If you introduce a middle man to the process, prices go way up to pay everyone now involved.

 

[Matt-FL]

It's just simple math: a middle man vs a manufacturer installing it. Tesla is the cheapest by far for solar and/or battery storage. If you introduce a middle man to the process, prices go way up to pay everyone now involved.

I'd venture to say that is not entirely accurate, as Tesla is not installing for free. Third parties appear to just charge far more that Tesla install services.

If you are buying from Tesla.com/solar in an area serviced by a third party installer, the hardware costs the same, and not sure how sales commissions work since you are not dealing directly with a sales associate, so you are paying a significantly higher cost for the same equipment install and possible sales commission. Personally, I'd rather have that 50% in my pocket than buying some installer owner a new Hummer.

 

[Jeremy3292]

I'd venture to say that is not entirely accurate, as Tesla is not installing for free. Third parties appear to just charge far more that Tesla install services.

If you are buying from Tesla.com/solar in an area serviced by a third party installer, the hardware costs the same, and not sure how sales commissions work since you are not dealing directly with a sales associate, so you are paying a significantly higher cost for the same equipment install and possible sales commission. Personally, I'd rather have that 50% in my pocket than buying some installer owner a new Hummer.

Almost. Tesla sells the solar/powerwall to the third party installer at X (Tesla profit). Third party installer sells the solar/powerwall they just purchased from Tesla at X to end consumer for Y (markup) + Z (labor costs) + Q (overhead).

Tesla doesn’t care and doesn’t control (in my opinion) what the third party installer charges the end consumer. Tesla made their profit already by selling the goods to the third party at X.

Additionally, Tesla is likely able to control overhead costs far better than a third party (likely much smaller) company is. So it ends up being very simple: remove the middle man, costs go way down.

I personally know this first hand bc I got a quote from a local reputable installer who was a Tesla certified distributor and the cost was astronomically higher than what Tesla was charging for the exact same end products. This is why I’m thankful Tesla services my area directly, without use of third party installers. For fun, I also checked zip codes in my state elsewhere and the costs were so much higher bc that area down the road was serviced by a third party installer.

 

[GregBallantyne]

Almost. Tesla sells the solar/powerwall to the third party installer at X (Tesla profit). Third party installer sells the solar/powerwall they just purchased from Tesla at X to end consumer for Y (markup) + Z (labor costs) + Q (overhead).

Tesla doesn’t care and doesn’t control (in my opinion) what the third party installer charges the end consumer. Tesla made their profit already by selling the goods to the third party at X.

Additionally, Tesla is likely able to control overhead costs far better than a third party (likely much smaller) company is. So it ends up being very simple: remove the middle man, costs go way down.

I personally know this first hand bc I got a quote from a local reputable installer who was a Tesla certified distributor and the cost was astronomically higher than what Tesla was charging for the exact same end products. This is why I’m thankful Tesla services my area directly, without use of third party installers. For fun, I also checked zip codes in my state elsewhere and the costs were so much higher bc that area down the road was serviced by a third party installer.

I'll also venture to say that is isn't entirely accurate, or as simple as you lay out. Not to argue the point, just to say my own experience does not point directly to this being the case.

 

[Jeremy3292]

I'll also venture to say that is isn't entirely accurate, or as simple as you lay out. Not to argue the point, just to say my own experience does not point directly to this being the case.

It certainly may not be the case for everyone or everywhere. It was just a simpleton explanation. However, when the question arises “Why is third party so expensive compared to Tesla direct?”, then my words will likely ring true for you.

 

[walla2]

Tesla doesn’t care and doesn’t control (in my opinion) what the third party installer charges the end consumer. Tesla made their profit already by selling the goods to the third party at X.

Tesla should care if they don't get the first sell because the third party killed it. They might not but in the long term this will push consumers like me to other systems at better, real life rates instead of double cost prices.

Given this is their strategy moving forward for the near future at least, this means far less installs for the near future. That should concern stockholders even if Tesla can't be bothered with the reality of their decisions:

Tesla changes its solar strategy, lays off workers, bets on certified installers

Tesla is evidently changing its solar strategy by starting to move away from having its own installers and relying more...

electrek.co

 

[jjrandorin]

Tesla should care if they don't get the first sell because the third party killed it. They might not but in the long term this will push consumers like me to other systems at better, real life rates instead of double cost prices.

Since they (Tesla) decided not to support your area directly, they already decided they didnt care much if they lose business there. That sounds harsh, but its probably very close to the truth. If it made sense for them, and they wanted the business in your area, they would support it directly.

 

[walla2]

As an update for me, I can't see myself going this road. Best offer:

26 405 W panels for $41,067. That's $1579.50 each for a $278 panel at retail, not wholesale. That's a 568% markup over direct panel costs but includes install.

Two power walls $33,000. Thats $16500 each for $8,950 installed powerwalls. That's a 184% markup for certified over direct both installed.

No one should do this. This is not competitive. Yeah, I get 30% back but that barely puts a dent in 568% and 184% markups.

 

[walla2]

Since they (Tesla) decided not to support your area directly, they already decided they didnt care much if they lose business there. That sounds harsh, but its probably very close to the truth. If it made sense for them, and they wanted the business in your area, they would support it directly.

You are probably right about that but Tesla loses share in the end. Is that the goal? To lose market share?

 

[jjrandorin]

You are probably right about that but Tesla loses share in the end. Is that the goal? To lose market share?

I had a lot more typed here, but My feeling on this is that its actually healthy for a company to decline business, if they cant support it properly.

Tesla has had "challenges" (lets call them) with customer service, and in my opinion a lot of those troubles can be traced back to "too much business, not enough support infrastructure for said business".

I am not (repeat, I am NOT) trying to make this a "Tesla customer service" thread as there is enough feedback on that already. What I AM saying, however, is its healthy for a company to only do the business it can support, and Tesla has failed at that seemingly on Purpose. Punting on areas they cant support in a manner that makes sense to them is healthy, and actually shows signs of company maturity.

Or, said another way, as an answer to your question above "Yes, that is the goal, if they cant support it properly or deem its not profitable for them".

 

[BGbreeder]

You are probably right about that but Tesla loses share in the end. Is that the goal? To lose market share?

Ok, so they don't service my home, and they apparently don't service yours. That's life. I don't think it is a given that Tesla loses share, either. Look at the diversity of choices we have for vehicles today, and then look back to what Henry Ford was competing with. I think these are early days, and lots of things will change.

I think that trying to be all things to all customers is a recipe for a death spiral in a company. I have seen it way too often, so yes, I agree with @jjrandorin that declining business in certain areas to certain kinds of homes is a sensible, and strategic business decision.

I could write pages about why the decision might make sense in a given area, (poor demographics, lack of a skilled labor pool, unpredictable AHJs, poor infrastructure to name a few), but I would be hand waving. The bottom line is that Tesla made a decision.

All the best,

BG