bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
I could have gone the rest of my life without that information.
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Change from alcantara to cloth on PUP???
- Thread starter 03DSG
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- Model 3 Tesla Inc.
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I could have gone the rest of my life without that information.
If I were to order today, like get my configuration email from Tesla right this minute, I would be ordering a car based on pictures from their website that are not accurate of the product to be delivered. Why is that so hard for you to understand? The website and press kit still shows the fake suede.
So are you saying that when I configure and these pictures are still up I can claim the bait and switch? Fine, I guarantee they don't take them down because they look much better than the replacement.
Yes I have a reservation, I stood in line for 7 hours in the Denver snow for it. I did so because I trusted Tesla to deliver something that would be great. They did that, for the first 2000 people and then they decided to screw everyone else. They made sure all of their employees got the nice one though, such integrity.
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I'm actually on your side in this debate. I was just trying to bring some levity. I don't think it's right to display photos and have cars reviewed for almost two years with one interior decor and then change it without notice after a half percent of the reservations have been built. I'm in the camp that thinks the supplier probably cut them off. It happens. But I didn't like the way Tesla handled it by saying they always planned it. Now if they did plan it then the timing seems to fit with the imminent roll-out of the SR battery and possibly non-PUP builds and the desire to simplify production. If the new "premium textile headliner" will be used across all of these builds it will make ramp up easier. But I still won't be happy with it. I drove 3 hours one way to Cleveland to stand in line to get this car as soon as possible. I was told I would get something special as a thank you for my effort. And now I'm not even getting what was revealed, promoted, and delivered to some.
insaneoctane
Well-Known Member
Why people think that I need to be $3,500+ into the car with an actual "order" in order for this to be bait and switch is pure BS. Many reservationists were baited by the marketing of premium ultra suede materials. Tesla has changed these materials = switch. Why is that so hard to understand? You don't think putting a refundable $1,000 deposit and anxiously waiting almost 2 years is commitment enough?
bait-and-switch
noun
noun: bait-and-switch
Trying to defend the position of the 30% of people bothered by this makes me look more extreme than I really am. I am not going to cancel my reservation (like some have done), but the continued attempt to brush aside Tesla's behavior here, just because you don't care about the material change is not constructive. What they did is crappy. They have done even worse, based off some previous posts regarding the MX, but if the customers can't tell Tesla when they cross a line because fan boys come to the rescue and demonize anyone who speaks ill of Tesla, then Tesla won't know or learn or care to do better. Tesla most certainly should have done better here. If Tesla would have released the model 3 from the beginning with the cloth liner, this thread would not exist. But, they did not. They chose to release it with Alcantara AND produced 2,000 cars to boot. They created this mess.
bait-and-switch
noun
noun: bait-and-switch
- the action (generally illegal) of advertising goods that are an apparent bargain, with the intention of substituting inferior or more expensive goods.
"a bait-and-switch scheme"
Trying to defend the position of the 30% of people bothered by this makes me look more extreme than I really am. I am not going to cancel my reservation (like some have done), but the continued attempt to brush aside Tesla's behavior here, just because you don't care about the material change is not constructive. What they did is crappy. They have done even worse, based off some previous posts regarding the MX, but if the customers can't tell Tesla when they cross a line because fan boys come to the rescue and demonize anyone who speaks ill of Tesla, then Tesla won't know or learn or care to do better. Tesla most certainly should have done better here. If Tesla would have released the model 3 from the beginning with the cloth liner, this thread would not exist. But, they did not. They chose to release it with Alcantara AND produced 2,000 cars to boot. They created this mess.
@insaneoctane
Call us what you will. Fanboy. Tesla lover. Name calling never got me anywhere beyond kindergarten. Just see more people that would never be in the position to even get a car at this point caring more for people that honestly might not even care. Just for the sake of arguing till they get the car.
I will now go back to something more constructive. Like driving my kid to Futsal in my Model 3. Maybe there I can be more constructive to this club rather than arguing about fabric. Like share on how the car drives or charges or drifts into the left part of the lane while on autopilot.
Demonize. Called a 5 year old today. Yesterday I was told I shouldn't be able to drive if I can't or don't want to figure out cruise control. All by people that don't even own the car. So eat your cake and enjoy it.
Makes me want to go pack up my sharing box and move it to instagramcracker. More pics less words.
Call us what you will. Fanboy. Tesla lover. Name calling never got me anywhere beyond kindergarten. Just see more people that would never be in the position to even get a car at this point caring more for people that honestly might not even care. Just for the sake of arguing till they get the car.
I will now go back to something more constructive. Like driving my kid to Futsal in my Model 3. Maybe there I can be more constructive to this club rather than arguing about fabric. Like share on how the car drives or charges or drifts into the left part of the lane while on autopilot.
Demonize. Called a 5 year old today. Yesterday I was told I shouldn't be able to drive if I can't or don't want to figure out cruise control. All by people that don't even own the car. So eat your cake and enjoy it.
Makes me want to go pack up my sharing box and move it to instagramcracker. More pics less words.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
Calling people fanboys who disagree with you is no better than if I were to call you a troll. Both are unacceptable and do nothing to contribute to a conversation, other than attempt to escalate emotions. Be better.
Bait and switch refers to a sale. Not a reservation. That's all. No need to defend the 30% (which is debatable, but whatever). I get it. My whole point was the ONLY people who could conceivably claim 'bait and switch' were those who had ordered while alcantara was advertised & the new headliner delivered.
There are many definitions out there of 'bait and switch', but all have to do with substituting inferior goods for a sale. Again, not a reservation. When reservations were made, Tesla was not offering goods for sale. They were offering a spot in line.
I'm not going to go back and forth on this any more. I understand that people are upset. There was nothing in my post that said they shouldn't be upset or disappointed if they happen to believe alcantara is the best. But no one was 'baited' into making a reservation based on switched interior materials.
Many have mentioned bait-and-switch but I don't think that's the correct term. With bait-and-switch, all of the definitions I've read refer to a low price and then when the customer tries to order the low priced item, it isn't available and a higher price item is offered at additional cost.
If anything, this is a substitution of materials, perhaps a lower quality/priced material when the buyer believed they paid for a higher priced item. I think customers would have a legitimate complaint if they expected alcantara and got textile but that's not the definition of not bait-and-switch.
If anything, this is a substitution of materials, perhaps a lower quality/priced material when the buyer believed they paid for a higher priced item. I think customers would have a legitimate complaint if they expected alcantara and got textile but that's not the definition of not bait-and-switch.
sreams
Member
Waiting 2 years for what? When people placed their reservations 2 years ago there was absolutely zero mention of alcantara.
You still don't seem to acknowledge the fact that the website still shows alcantara. So all these people you are dismissing because they didn't really order a car and merely reserved one are turning into actual orders as we speak. I have a Dec - Feb date (not that I believe that) but I am willing to bet that the pictures on the website will be alcantara the day that I order. Can I complain then?
Also, don;t you find it the least bit suspicious that Tesla is the only manufacturer that does not have a gallery of exterior and interior photos on their website? Don't you find it suspicious that Tesla has revealed almost nothing about this car themselves and let rumor and youtube videos describe almost everything? These are purposeful tactics so they can say "We didn't say it would be like that, you just made an assumption." That is an awful thing to do to customers. How much trust do you think Tesla is building with these strategies?
But there it is on the website. So when I order can I bitch about it then? Do I have your permission to complain about not getting the interior that is clearly shown on the website?
So if they make any changes in production you don't want them, then? What about if they make an improvement? Tesla has repeatedly said that they don't do model years. This is not news. I am certain that the login pictures have reflected configurations that are no longer available multiple times before.
I don’t think anyone has said that anyone else cannot complain. They may disagree with the intensity, but that is their opinion, just as this is yours.
The good news for you is that you haven’t ordered it, and you know what you’re getting if you do. So you have the benefit of your research to guide you in your decision.
No I don't, because Tesla has intentionally been cryptic. Heated rear seats, are they there? What about when they can't deliver their textile headliner and switch to something else? To say that people know what they are getting is just dishonest. Tesla has intentionally been vague with details so they could get great reviews on one car and then deliver a different car.
I think "bait and switch" applies, in that you are getting a (subjectively) inferior product for the same price, that's the same as paying a higher price for the inferior product. You were baited with something good, and then told when you went to pick up the car that sorry, you can only have this other thing.
The fact they (intentionally or not) failed to communicate this in advance to those who would be affected (and are still doing a sloppy job at best communicating it now) also screams bait and switch, even if it really might just be sadly typical Tesla communications failure (both to the public and internally, since even the employees handling delivery had no idea what was going on at first).
I think in the end, they have effectively performed a bait and switch whether they intended to or not, but the real offense was the poor communication (and possibly even lying about things, like the whole "we always meant to do this" bit, which if so, should have been communicated in advance - I suspect that something somewhere went south and they had to juggle to keep the flow of cars coming out of Fremont, and failed to communicate and then tried to make it sound intentional rather than an issue). If communication had been even merely good (communicate upcoming change and that it would affect S/X too), then there would still be disappointment, but it wouldn't be bait and switch.
And the argument that nobody who places an order after the changed was exposed has a leg to stand on, seems unfair, as not everyone will be a Tesla fan to the point of paying attention to news or even reading Tesla blog articles. I guarantee there's at least some poor souls who have a reservation and at best saw the launch event and/or various Alcantara-equipped reviews and assumed that is still what they're getting, and will be surprised upon delivery. All the various articles and videos need to have corrections posted, and all the delivery/store/gallery/etc employees need to be informing customers about the change, they need to remove the material from the design studio area that is in physical stores/galleries, etc. Once all that happens, then you can say that people moving forwards have no right to complain, because they should have known.
The fact they (intentionally or not) failed to communicate this in advance to those who would be affected (and are still doing a sloppy job at best communicating it now) also screams bait and switch, even if it really might just be sadly typical Tesla communications failure (both to the public and internally, since even the employees handling delivery had no idea what was going on at first).
I think in the end, they have effectively performed a bait and switch whether they intended to or not, but the real offense was the poor communication (and possibly even lying about things, like the whole "we always meant to do this" bit, which if so, should have been communicated in advance - I suspect that something somewhere went south and they had to juggle to keep the flow of cars coming out of Fremont, and failed to communicate and then tried to make it sound intentional rather than an issue). If communication had been even merely good (communicate upcoming change and that it would affect S/X too), then there would still be disappointment, but it wouldn't be bait and switch.
And the argument that nobody who places an order after the changed was exposed has a leg to stand on, seems unfair, as not everyone will be a Tesla fan to the point of paying attention to news or even reading Tesla blog articles. I guarantee there's at least some poor souls who have a reservation and at best saw the launch event and/or various Alcantara-equipped reviews and assumed that is still what they're getting, and will be surprised upon delivery. All the various articles and videos need to have corrections posted, and all the delivery/store/gallery/etc employees need to be informing customers about the change, they need to remove the material from the design studio area that is in physical stores/galleries, etc. Once all that happens, then you can say that people moving forwards have no right to complain, because they should have known.
And you don't see a problem with that? You don't see a problem with them intentionally not putting any galleries of pictures up so that they can deny they were ever going to deliver what you thought. Hey, I got an idea. Why not make tires extra? They never said they were going to put tires on it.
If I were you, I’d definitely pass on the car, then. That way you’re in full control, and there is no room for disappointment. It doesn’t sound like it’s a good fit given your communication expectations and Tesla’s communication shortcomings.
Tires are on the Monroney.
If the car being not exactly to some perceived standard is this upsetting, perhaps you should look to a company that follows traditional model years.
Back on topic. Does anyone know the spec of the fake suede/Alcantara? Some are interested in retrofitting car or making other pieces from it. Maybe a color match. Surely there is some installer that could help us here.
Would have preferred the fake suede for the light color (alcantara), but I configured and confirmed even knowing there will be a different material. In the end, not a big thing for me. On a side note, the first time I noted the fabric in my 1 month old Merc was last week when all this debate erupted. Alas, it is black premium fabric - not alcantara. I survived....
Zaphod
Galaxy President (former)
To be fair, this 30% of people is based on self-selected group participating in this forum (and think there was a poll on electrek as well). I think the numbers are substantially skewed. I am quite sure if ask the average reservation holder not on these forums, that the number would go down substantially.
Don't mean to diminish your feelings, just feel that its a bit untruthful to be throwing this 30% number of upset people as hard facts.
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