Charge scheduling (again... sorry!)

[Dilly]

The in-car schedules just can’t hack it. By chance, last night everything needed topping up.
Tesla & Outlander set to charge using Zappi timers and Powerwalls have an off peak setting.
both cars started at 00:30 and finished well before 04:30.
for the Powerwalls, I set the backup margin 5% less than the level it was at when I went to bed.
when I got up, everything was at a level it needed to be. Had I left the margin low, I couldn’t be certain they would take enough. Their algorithms are a bit hit and miss.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

It’s been said a couple of times now
- you can set a precondition time for preheating the cabin, this is irrespective of charging
- you can set either start or stop (based on the end of off peak availability) time but not both, or just let it start charging when you plug it in

Once you accept you are working within those parameters things get a lot easier. Tesla don’t help as the menu’s and messages are confusing, but if you reign in what you think it can do from within the car/app you are less likely to have an issue

 

[JonB]

You know more than the local Tesla employee then… as my experience demonstrates!

The answer for me will be a timed contactor on the charging circuit (as it’s a Commando + UMC) until I get a Zappi.

 

[Jagdipa]

I use my podpoint home charger to set the schedule time to start and stop. I just plug my car in. Can you set it on your home charger instead?

 

[spdpsba]

I use my podpoint home charger to set the schedule time to start and stop. I just plug my car in. Can you set it on your home charger instead?

Yes, that is the best approach rather than doing it in Tesla. Some home chargers do not come with charging schedule that is when people use the Tesla app/or car schedule. If you are using pod point for the schedule to work every time you have to set up charging schedule for everyday (for example from 1230-430 everyday if you are even charging only during weekends).

 

[morrishey]

I presume that if you only use the charge point timer, when the car tries to precondition/preheat it has to use its battery rather than the ground power, as the charge point will not be providing power at that point?

 

[JonB]

I use my podpoint home charger to set the schedule time to start and stop. I just plug my car in. Can you set it on your home charger instead?

No, I don't have a smart charger yet.

 

[spdpsba]

I presume that if you only use the charge point timer, when the car tries to precondition/preheat it has to use its battery rather than the ground power, as the charge point will not be providing power at that point?

Yes, but what I noticed in the last one year is M3 LFP battery consumes very little if we are preheating - I have lost around 1%-2%. In fact I have used it as home office for around 3hrs and probably I lost around 8-10% with heating set at 21 in one of those sub zero condition.

 

[Jason71]

?

Fair point not my best post.
Since you were asking "How can we get the message to Tesla" I was suggesting that writing a letter to Santa Claus about it might be as as reliable means as any other that exists given how hard Tesla are to contact at that level. Its either that or Twitter and I am not on Twitter.

 

[spdpsba]

Fair point not my best post.
Since you were asking "How can we get the message to Tesla" I was suggesting that writing a letter to Santa Claus about it might be as as reliable means as any other that exists given how hard Tesla are to contact at that level. Its either that or Twitter and I am not on Twitter.

Just to add a note, Elon's twitter team are very good in responding to tweets and bringing them to Elon's attention - if that is of any help.

 

[JonB]

Well they haven't noticed my tweet yet.

 

[spdpsba]

Well they haven't noticed my tweet yet.

May be an update coming if lots of us tweet Elon. Remember Tesla made a change to battery %/miles display as there was a long running debate around which one to keep on the screen display. After the tweets Tesla came up with an option of having either% or miles just by pressing the button. So we are not far off on this scheduling. Fingers crossed, Elon might say Yes to start and end time for UK and EU countries.

 

[JonB]

I hope so. But the cars have been in the UK since - what - 2019?

As to this range vs. battery percentage display debate, the screen is large enough for both. Can't see why they didn't display both (except that the range display is wildly over optimistic, at least, on mine).

 

[Simonix]

I found that following this method outlined below gave the result I wanted, just using the Tesla app. It also made the most sense to me, after reading different explanations.

I'm on Octopus Go (4 hrs) and use the Departure tab not Charge to achieve off peak charging as it has this option of when off peak rate ends.

When you set the percentage to where you want the car charged up to, flicking to the scheduled charge tab in the app afterwards shows when the charging will start as a side effect of this. Scheduled charging should remain disabled however.

Basically adjust your percentage until the charge start time is where you want it to be (in my case 00:30) and it will stop at the off peak end time give or take a couple of minutes.

I did toy with the idea of using the charging point as the scheduler but I don't like the idea of the charge just stopping to the car as it could be carrying out balancing or some other battery maintenance.

The above is all in the iOS app, not sure if Android is the same?

 

[JonB]

That's a good hack! If a bit klunky.

 

[JonB]

A follow up on this. I’ve been using the suggestion posted above (@beef68 quote) successfully to set a start / end time but since the Xmas update it doesn’t work any more. The start time is no longer updated when you set the target charge percentage, so I’m guessing now. Very disappointed.

 

[Simonix]

A follow up on this. I’ve been using the suggestion posted above (@beef68 quote) successfully to set a start / end time but since the Xmas update it doesn’t work any more. The start time is no longer updated when you set the target charge percentage, so I’m guessing now. Very disappointed.

I agree, this was a useful "hack" which I was using every night.

 

[Casss]

I do empathise with the situation. It is frustrating.

One thing about software is that it’s malleable and I think people forget this. (Not a dig op). Personally I’d never rely 100% on software-dependent features for charging, because dependable charging is so critical (duh). Even if they added a more conventional start/end time… you can never guarantee it won’t get rolled back or suffer bugs.

This doesn’t “excuse” Tesla for the present functionality or lack thereof, but just a good principle to keep in mind I find.

The quickest and most reliable (and probably most easy) fix for this, instead of waiting for Elon to read a tweet is probably to invest in a smart charger. Get a good one and it should last years, plus it’s unlikely you won’t need it going forward anyway. Worth doing before half the country is trying to get one too imo.

Case in point - ask any of the tech heads and developers I work with if they have digital door locks. Answer: none of them do

 

[JonB]

Yes, software is malleable. However, when it reaches the production phase one would expect to see a better level of QA applied prior to releasing updates. Especially as a) Tesla is a big company with a stack of money, so they can afford to do this, b) the product is expensive and this sets higher expectations, and c) it's a car, so many of these features are safety critical (obvs. not the charging schedule, but there are other issues pertaining to driving the thing).

So, I disagree with your point. Saying "it's only software, they will fix it" doesn't excuse the sloppy pre-release QA I perceive. Our expectations are set by our general experiences with other similar things; for example, I have a mobile phone that gets updated regularly by the manufacturer and I rarely see functional breakdowns post update, if ever. It's all very well running your software teams like a start up, as in "Move fast and break things", but that approach can get you into hot water if it's someone's neck you are breaking.

Of course, the charge scheduling "hack" might have come about as a result of a bug, and what we see is a "fix". Who knows, other than the developer who altered it? And maybe s/he doesn't know if it changed as a side effect of another (intended) change (by the way, software engineers call this pathological coupling).

I will have a smart charger eventually. The installations seem to have long lead times at the moment.

Regarding digital door locks, that I can agree with. Same with "Internet of Things" devices, which seem to have zero security.

 

[JonB]

Here's another update, after Tesla Support reached out to me following a bug report I raised on the App Store. It's a cut & paste from an email exhage I had with VehicleSupportEMEA - [email protected] - sorry if it is a bit long, but it was necessary to explain the problem in detail.

I wrote:

The underlying problem is that I cannot schedule a start and end time for charging, so as to fit within my electricity supplier’s off-peak times. The app is trying to implement these use cases: 1) “charge to this battery percentage by this time” (scheduled departure) and 2) “start charging at this time, stop when this battery percentage is reached” (scheduled charge).

It is counter intuitive call this second use case “scheduled charging” if you can only schedule the start time, and the “off peak” feature is only available on the scheduled departure tab. There is a “peak time end” in the scheduled departure tab but I can’t actually reach that on my phone because it is below the lower border of the screen. I have an iPhone 7, and this is a definite bug in the app; the app should allow scrolling as it does on other screens.

What I need is this use case: “charge up to a specified percentage starting at [start time] and ending at [end time]”. If the specified SoC isn’t achieved by the end time, it should still stop charging, and it should honour the charge rate too (amperage setting). In this way, I can leave my Tesla plugged in, and it will top up my battery only within the (off peak) times I specify. You can see why this might be useful – over a period of days I can keep my battery topped up without risking peak time electricity usage, and use it for local trips, knowing that it will be routinely topped up, but only with off peak electricity.

I participate in forums and Facebook groups and I know that there are many other users who need this feature to be implemented in the Tesla App and car. In the UK and Europe, we do not have the same sorts of tariffs that you enjoy in the US, and the start time for off peak cannot be assumed, as it varies by region.

Reply:

Thank you for the detailed explanation.

I understand the main issue here now.

As an interim solution, I advise you to choose the 'Schedule charging' option, while setting the charge limit accordingly (so for example if you want the car to stop charging after 5 hours, you can set the limit to around 60% and will achieve a similar result). I understand this is not the most convenient solution but hopefully will be of help in the meantime.

The interim solution won't cut it:

That is a bit hit and miss.

Prior to the latest update, the app would alter the start time in the scheduled charging tab according to the departure time and charge level / amperage so I could – with trial and error – manually see when it’d start (with departure time as the end time). Not ideal, a bit klunky but better than nothing. Since the car software has updated, it no longer changes the start time in the phone app, so I don’t have that option.

I have to fall back on guesswork which is less than ideal.

So I would appreciate it if you could get the proper schedule use case as described in my previous email into the development queue. This is more important to me (and others) than integrating another game that we won’t use. I’m looking at you, Sonic.

Please let me know how you get on, and what the outcome is of my request.

Reply:

Thank you for the clarification, I understand the inconvenience.

As I have mentioned, I have escalated this to our development team to consider for future updates.

Unfortunately, We will not be able to update on the outcome of this request specifically, but invite you to stay updated on our website.




So there we have it. The devs will get notified (hopefully a proper ticket will be raised) but we won't know if it's addressed until we see it in the app.