Charging the Roadster

[benji4]

In the PDF it says the interface module is 6.0 kg --- not too bad an addition if it makes the Roadster CHAdeMO compliant. If CHAdeMO really becomes standard for fast charging, it still seems like Tesla might provide some kind of upgrade for the Roadster, and LUNA device certainly shows it can be done.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

I am sure several Tesla Roadster owners will be interested. Can you please keep us publicly informed of your progress.

sure will....

 

[bolosky]

Epyon Power make a module called LUNA that claims to convert any Li-ion based EV to CHAdeMO DC Fast Charge.

I'd be amazed if this worked on a Roadster, especially without voiding the warranty. Think about how complicated the charging system is: it regulates power and temp, cell balance, etc. In order to connect a DC charger, you'd have to cut around the ordinary charging system and somehow get access directly to the battery. That just seems fraught with peril to me.

I could imagine that if high power DC charging really becomes popular that Tesla might do a Roadster upgrade to support it, but I wouldn't bet on it given that the Roadster is a dying product line and the changes would probably be pretty major.

I think that we'll just have to suck it up and live with max 70A. We all knew that by being early adopters we would miss out on better stuff that gets developed as the field matures, this is just one of them.

 

[vfx]

...
I think that we'll just have to suck it up and live with max 70A. We all knew that by being early adopters we would miss out on better stuff that gets developed as the field matures, this is just one of them.

Seeing the Leaf and Volt owners yesterday with their IPhone apps really made me want one for our Roadster. Coolest new car gimmick in a long time.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

I'd be amazed if this worked on a Roadster, especially without voiding the warranty.

I'd have no intension of voiding the warranty. I plan to work with Tesla if epyon think the upgrade is possible. Remember that the AC will be rectified pretty soon after reaching the PEM and any DC charger would 'simply' need to fool the system into thinking it has an AC supply. This sort of after market upgrade will be developed by third parties once the Roadsters warranties start expiring.... in 10 years time you'll see lots of tricked out Roadsters.

 

[tesla]

How long can the Roadster be plugged in and charging in "Storage Mode" ? I'm just curious because I go away a lot and leaving the car unplugged in the garage, the battery will slowly discharge. Is it safe to leave it for 2 months? 3? 4?

Thanks

-Kevin

 

[Fuzzylogic]

You can leave it plugged in forever. As Tesla said, the Roadster is designed to be plugged in.
It's not always charging, it will check once a day and bring up the charge to Storage Mode level.

If it's very hot in Summer, it might also cool the battery, and keep it at a low temperature.
High temperaures and a high Charge level will degrade the battery, leaving it plugged in in Storage mode will prevent both.

 

[Doug_G]

Just to add to Fuzzylogic's post, if the ESS does not require cooling due to high temperatures, then it will sit for months before it even needs to draw power from the plug.

 

[benji4]

I've contacted epyon in the UK and will look into the possibility of supporting this on my Tesla.

The Epyon LUNA module used with the Roadster

Kevin, I emailed a contact at Tesla regarding the possilibity of working with Epyon on getting the LUNA module to work with the Roadster. He said that Epyon has already contacted Tesla asking for complete specs on the Roadster's batteries and charging system. The answer, as I guess one might expect, is that there is no way in hell that Tesla would be able to provide these specs to another vendor. Any thoughts on this? My idea is that Epyon could provide Tesla with a LUNA module and its specs and have Tesla integrate it with the Roadster. Maybe you could speak with Epyon about the possilibity of something like that...

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

The Epyon LUNA module used with the Roadster

Kevin, I emailed a contact at Tesla regarding the possilibity of working with Epyon on getting the LUNA module to work with the Roadster. He said that Epyon has already contacted Tesla asking for complete specs on the Roadster's batteries and charging system. The answer, as I guess one might expect, is that there is no way in hell that Tesla would be able to provide these specs to another vendor. Any thoughts on this?

If the LUNA module takes over the battery charging function then it will never happen because that's one of the largest pieces of Tesla IP. However, it should be possible to fool the car into thinking it has a high current AC supply while actually supplying the charging energy to the DC side of the bridge rectifiers... this probably isn't something that Tesla will undertake because the Roadster is getting close to eol status IMO. However, it is something that I could see a third party developing in the future as an after market upgrade.

Personally, I think a DC charging interface could be useful in mainland Europe where current from single/three phase supplies is often limited; in Japan where DC charging is becoming widespread; and in the UK and US where Level 2 deployments are limited to ~30A.

 

[benji4]

Personally, I think a DC charging interface could be useful in mainland Europe where current from single/three phase supplies is often limited; in Japan where DC charging is becoming widespread; and in the UK and US where Level 2 deployments are limited to ~30A.

Thanks Kevin, let's keep our fingers crossed. In Japan it certainly appears that CHAdeMO is a lock to take over with Nissan, Mitsubishi, and Toyota all behind it and hundreds of CHAdeMO charge points already deployed. I think there is also a pretty good market that it will proliferate in the US and Europe as well as LEAFs and other cars that support DC charging hit the road. Maybe the aftermarket will then step in with a solution for the (aging) Roadster.

 

[dpeilow]

The trouble with using the LUNA module or similar to drop DC in downstream of the rectifiers is that you are still restricted to whatever the charging circuitry in the PEM can deal with. And while we know that it can take 40kW under braking for a few seconds, we don't know what it will sustain constantly other than 17kW from the HPC.

I would think that with the proliferation of CHAdeMO rapid chargers in Japan, Ireland, the Netherlands and seemingly the UK and US in the next 12 months, it would be in Tesla's interest to develop such a solution. If they can throw together a Rav4 or A-class in 3 weeks then it can't be too hard. There are still more than 1000 Roadsters still to be produced and I'd bet that more than a few existing owners would pay for an upgrade. It would also give them field experience prior to the release of the future models.

Speaking of which, I wonder whether the "show" Model S Alpha that is due in a week will have DC charging on it?

 

[dsm363]

I had my Roadster stop in the middle of charging overnight for the first time. I have the UMC on a NEMA 14-50R outlet normally charging at 32A and have never before had a problem.
I saw two error screens this morning: 'Live Voltage Lost Sync' and 'External Charger Problem'. The UMC has the red light blinking 4 times each cycle of blinks (the manual said to report the number of blinks to Tesla if this happens which I just did). I reset the breaker on my house for that outlet which allowed it to start charging again. I went back out again after an hour and saw only the 'External Charger Problem' warning again the the UMC blinking the red light 4 times again. I reset the breaker a second time and dropped the charging down to 24A so I'll see if that helps. Any ideas? It's works fine since late December when I got the car so I wonder if it's a problem with the UMC.

 

[kgb]

I saw two error screens this morning: 'Live Voltage Lost Sync' and 'External Charger Problem'. The UMC has the red light blinking 4 times each cycle of blinks...I wonder if it's a problem with the UMC.

I'm not 100% sure what your errors are, but I had a similar problem (technically two different problems that are both similar to yours).
When you charge, do the LED's at the charge port turn red? Is the LED on the UMC red?

I haven't had any significant problems with my car, but I did have 2 problems with my UMC. My 1st UMC worked for a couple weeks, my 2nd UMC worked for almost 2 months, my current UMC is still working and approaching 3 months. TM was very good about it. They shipped a new UMC overnight no questions asked. As soon as I plugged it in and it worked, they asked that I ship the broken UMC back (they paid shipping). I wouldn't worry too much yet, wait and see what happens with the replacement UMC.

I'm wondering if the old UMC had problems like this. Is it a problem with the new design, or is it just dsm and I who are having problems with the UMC?

 

[benji4]

I saw two error screens this morning: 'Live Voltage Lost Sync' and 'External Charger Problem'.

I sadly got the the 'Live Voltage Lost Sync' error the very first time I tried to charge my brand new car 2 days ago! I was charging at a public 100V / 15A charge point (there are a number of these around Tokyo in public parking lots -- a very slow way to charge, but I guess every little bit helps!). I asked Tesla about this problem and I was told that it occurs when voltage fluctuates too much on the line, but that if I set charging at 12A rather than 15A it will greatly reduce the changes of it occuring. Anyway, I tried this last night at home charging from a 100V / 15A outlet, and even after 8 hours I had only added 40km to the ideal range! I really need to get a HPC or mobile charger soon or I think I'm going to be at the dealer everyday charging!!!

 

[Eberhard]

with lowering the charging rate to much, also the efficiency of charging goes down and you may loose to much for running the fans, PEM etc. 100V/13A = about 1kW charging load depending on cos phi. 5km/h is what you can expect. I do charging 230V/16A and 32A, giving me 20km/h or 40km/h at HPC it do 80km/h (64A)

 

[mpt]

I really need to get a HPC or mobile charger soon or I think I'm going to be at the dealer everyday charging!!!

Yes you do! The cord that comes with the car is for Sunday morning blasts only, realistically. Drawing greater than 80% of the rated output of the source puts you into that risky area where old breakers and dirty connectors cause voltage drops and cut-out. The same applies if you try to pull 240v/48A at a Camping ground 50A outlet. General wisdom suggests that at 80% or less you're unlikely to see errors.

with lowering the charging rate to much, also the efficiency of charging goes down...

I charge at 240v/12A as that'll restore 50% of the battery overnight; usually enough for me. I reason that it's more efficient as you're not running the fans or AC, certainly not in this weather in NJ anyway. You're generating less heat (waste) in the batteries and you're being as kind to them as you could be.

But, the equation probably flips over if you're in a hot climate (fans, AC, etc) or a cold climate (heating).

 

[Doug_G]

I really need to get a HPC or mobile charger soon or I think I'm going to be at the dealer everyday charging!!!

Go for the mobile charger. It's plenty powerful enough to fully charge while you sleep, and it's portable! I find I almost never use 70A for charging.

 

[benji4]

Go for the mobile charger. It's plenty powerful enough to fully charge while you sleep, and it's portable! I find I almost never use 70A for charging.

Yes, I think that's what I'll do. In Japan most homes actually have only 100A plans (or less sometimes even!), and anything more that that results in a much higher base electric bill. I've got 120A total and have directed 50A of it to the garage and also installed a NEMA 14-50 outlet (which was not easy to come by in this country!). I also got a place ready to put the HPC in, but since I only have 50A anyway I guess I'll just leave that one for the future. So now just need to get the mobile connector and I should be all set to go! Although it is kind of nice getting free charges from dealer too

 

[Doug_G]

Although it is kind of nice getting free charges from dealer too

Lucky you... it would take me more than one full charge to get to the store!