cdub
OG 2011 Leaf / 2023 Model Y LR
After my experience with the leaf I won't buy an EV without an amazing battery. 40% loss and still considered normal under warranty? No thank you.
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Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)
- Thread starter FredTMC
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- bolt chevy Electric Vehicles review
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
The Volt also had/has a HUGE buffer...which the Bolt does not.
Oh, the EPA is certainly contributing to the problem; I'm not certain if it's an unintended consequence or something more Machiavellian.
I haven't seen a slider anywhere outside of Tesla - maybe it is covered by a patent? (Though Tesla said they wouldn't sue for infringement on EV patents...)
Yeah, I read about the hill mode recently somewhere - but I doubt it'll occur too many users to use it if they aren't living atop a hill, so the majority of the fleet will get that daily 100% charge.
I hope GM planned adequately for that.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Well it's only about 5 years down the road and the 30% qualifier is pretty lax, so it's no surprise if there have not been any claims yet. Also it's relatively difficult to determine degradation in the Volt from a combination of it not making things very visible (given it's a PHEV using only the middle of the pack) and also from it having relatively short AER compared to an EV (a loss of 10% is only 3-4 miles of range and would not be as noticeable).
If this thing (JuicePlug - an $89 Universal Smart EV Charging Adapter) ever ships, people will have an easy way to restrict charging to whatever % they feel like, without having to toy with charge settings/hill top reserve or whatever.
edit: crap, I just realized the Juiceplug probably doesn't allow you to set a certain % to shut off charging. Should have read the fine print before contributing to the kickstarter. Whoops.
Well, still will be good to have live access via the smartphone app and kWh usage stats!
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Drone Flyer
Active Member
That's what I said. The Bolt is great for commuting but not for trips.
I have had to do a full charge occasionally at a SC so why wouldn't; a Bolt need to do the same occasionally at a Level 3 or 2 charger?
Your comment makes no sense.
No slider, but an 80% or 100% selector. I didn't know that other cars only had the 100% charge option. Crazy. Is the Bolt 100% or nothing?
This is for the Soul EV...
Bolt has 40%, 90% (via hilltop reserve setting) and 100% as options. Don't ask me where they got 40% from.....maybe if you're leaving on an extended trip and don't want to leave the HV battery at a high SOC?
Yeah, I don't think the plug has any way to know the battery percentage. Of course, this one is smartphone controlled, and you have a phone app that knows the percentage, so if you could hook it together in the phone it might be possible...
Per the manual (p.129); I added the underlining.
"Priority Charging
The priority charging feature will work when the Departure charge mode is selected. This feature is designed to ensure that the high voltage battery has a minimal amount of energy prior to delaying a charge. Upon completion of priority charging, the vehicle will return to normal Programmable Charging operation.
The feature can be enabled/ disabled by selecting On/Off from the Charge Mode tab on the Charging screen when the Departure charge mode is selected. When enabled, Priority Charging will only prevent Programmable Charging while the high voltage battery is recharged from a depleted state to a 40% state of charge."
The priority charging feature will work when the Departure charge mode is selected. This feature is designed to ensure that the high voltage battery has a minimal amount of energy prior to delaying a charge. Upon completion of priority charging, the vehicle will return to normal Programmable Charging operation.
The feature can be enabled/ disabled by selecting On/Off from the Charge Mode tab on the Charging screen when the Departure charge mode is selected. When enabled, Priority Charging will only prevent Programmable Charging while the high voltage battery is recharged from a depleted state to a 40% state of charge."
Priority Charging is not intended as a battery degradation saving feature. It charges the battery immediately to 40% then lets the Programmable Charging function at a later time. You might be able to trick it such that the Programmable Charging never subsequently charges, but that's certainly not how it's intended to be used.
The exact same feature currently exists in the Spark EV.
4.3 kWh divided between top and bottom.
Larger than some perhaps, but HUGE is a bit of stretch.
The Volt also get more cycles too than most cars that normal run in 100% EV mode.
If the Volt was a "60kWh Class", it would see:
391 kW discharge many times per day.
196 kW regen often.
3 year 3 months of battery "use" is equal to 1 year of use with a 60kWh car that has 524 EV Horsepower, often floored many times a day.
So 8 years on a 60 kWh car is about 26 years worth on a Volt.
So any sort of comparison of any BEV made to the hardships a Volt battery sees is useless. The Volt battery is in a different EV league.
The Volt battery is allowed to lose 30% of it's capacity. None have come close. It's not from guys who came in 2nd in WWII. It's the guys who put EVs on the moon.
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
A) How many kWh is the Bolt's buffer?
B) The Volt has a nominal 18.4kWh array. How much of it is used? 4.3 kWh's is buffered but it is not a dead buffer like on an EV. It is constantly used.
Unlike some EV's when you "100%" charge a Volt, it can regen at 60kWh immediately.
And? The Volt has a 75kW generator on board and a 120kW AC traction motor assy. When you consume all of the 14.1 kWh working window, the gas generator comes on. The Volt still has 120kW of drivetrain output, even though the 75kW motor cannot produce it. It is using battery buffer to augment the generator output.
I have no idea what the unused buffer area is on a Volt. Best guess? 2 kWh.
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First generation Volts had about 1 kWh between the point the engine comes on at and the hard floor where it load sheds and sets Propulsion Power Reduced - I suspect second generation is the same or less, since they have a more powerful engine that's always geared to the wheels. First generation had about 200 Wh above the "full" line until it stops accepting power from regen.
Total 16.0 kWh, ~10.4 Usable, ~1.2 buffer, must be ~4.4 kWh unusable bricking/degradation reserve, 2.4 kWh below the 15% hard floor, so apparently ~2 kWh upper reserve on 2011/12s.
Later cars had slightly more nominal capacity, almost all added to the usable portion, and started to move the whole usable window down to slightly lower SoC numbers.
Percentage wise, that's a huge reserve - In normal operation an early Volt didn't get outside of the 87%-20% range, and never past 88%/15%. Granted, the power levels were pretty remarkable - 7C on acceleration, almost 4C on regeneration.
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
Saghost already answered, but to revisit the point of this exchange, I intimated that using the Volt to assuage concerns about the Bolt isn't really relevant. You stated the same.
The agreement we have is that no matter the vantage you're taking with the Volt, it's not a good reference for comparison to the Bolt.
Note. Nissan has never made good cars. They tend to make junk. They tried to screw us twice on major failures under warranty. They failed both times. That dealership is now gone.
A friend of mine had a Sentra that liked to eat engines. For emissions control, they had Pre-Cats up in the exhaust headers - and EGR was accomplished by late valve opening. Somewhat predictably, the pre-cats would break down from the vibration and thermal cycling and the particles would be sucked back into the cylinders. Nissan replaced the first engine under warranty - he traded the car abruptly when the second engine was starting to go for a Subaru.
Having said that, everything I've read suggests the Leaf is actually a pretty solid car - except for the battery degradation problem, which would likely be much less of an issue if they were routinely charged to 80% as I suspect Nissan was expecting before the EPA rules change (none of which excuses Nissan's decisions or responses, but it does somewhat explain them I believe.)
cdub
OG 2011 Leaf / 2023 Model Y LR
I charged to 80% almost all the time and it still happened for me. I charge to 100% now... Otherwise I can't make it back home from work. 36 miles round trip! Can't wait until the new battery is ready for me. They're paying for 2/3s of the cost of the replacement.
Bolt EVs hitting dealer websites! The floodgates have opened!
6 at Keyes Chevy: Keyes Chevrolet | New car and used inventory
16 at Rydell!: Shop Chevrolet Bolt EV Vehicles in Thousand Oaks area at Rydell Chevrolet
10 at Freemont Chevy!: New, used, and pre-owned Chevrolet, cars, trucks, and SUVs for sale at Fremont Chevrolet in Fremont
5 at Momentum Chevy!: Search Chevrolet Bolt EV Vehicles for sale near San Jose, CA at Momentum Chevrolet
6 at Keyes Chevy: Keyes Chevrolet | New car and used inventory
16 at Rydell!: Shop Chevrolet Bolt EV Vehicles in Thousand Oaks area at Rydell Chevrolet
10 at Freemont Chevy!: New, used, and pre-owned Chevrolet, cars, trucks, and SUVs for sale at Fremont Chevrolet in Fremont
5 at Momentum Chevy!: Search Chevrolet Bolt EV Vehicles for sale near San Jose, CA at Momentum Chevrolet
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