Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register
  • Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
  • The final cut of TMC Podcast #34 is available now with topics timestamped. We covered Tesla's rollercoaster prices, Toyota pushing junk science, Mike's new Model 3, Optimizing track mode for snow driving, FSD V11 apparently coming by the end of this week, and more. You can watch and check out the chat replay on YouTube.

Choosing PG&E Rate Plan (Solar with Storage)

I disagree with this, I have Powerwalls and I'm on E-TOU-C it is more cost effective as a net exported/generator/producer as I can reduce the amount of Powerwall usage and the efficiency loss during the recharge phase to get the maximum amount exported.

I want to understand this a bit more. When I was on ETOU-C, my powerwall didn't discharge during peak in the winter. Is anyone's powerwall discharging in the winter that's using PG&E?

Current rates (ignoring baseline)
Summer peak: $0.48902
Summer off-peak: $0.42558
peak to off peak ratio: 115%

Winter peak: $0.39193
Winter off-peak: $0.37460
peak to off peak ratio: 104.6%

in this scenario, that means the powerwall would not be used during winter since the ratio is less than the 10% roundtrip efficiency, whereas in summer it would discharge between 4-9pm.

I am currently a net exporter so should I switch back to ETOU-C now or after true up? I am 8 months into my first cycle and I have 3800 kWh exported. And wouldn't being on ETOU-C mean I would likely increase my NBCs above the monthly minimum bill, since there would be 4 additional hours each day where I am pulling energy from the grid, whereas on EV2-A my powerwall covers my usage for 4 additional hours.
 
Last edited:
I want to understand this a bit more. When I was on ETOU-C, my powerwall didn't discharge during peak in the winter. Is anyone's powerwall discharging in the winter that's using PG&E?

Current rates (ignoring baseline)
Summer peak: $0.48902
Summer off-peak: $0.42558
peak to off peak ratio: 115%

Winter peak: $0.39193
Winter off-peak: $0.37460
peak to off peak ratio: 104.6%

in this scenario, that means the powerwall would not be used during winter since the ratio is less than the 10% roundtrip efficiency, whereas in summer it would discharge between 4-9pm.

I am currently a net exporter so should I switch back to ETOU-C now or after true up? I am 8 months into my first cycle and I have 3800 kWh exported. And wouldn't being on ETOU-C mean I would likely increase my NBCs above the monthly minimum bill, since there would be 4 additional hours each day where I am pulling energy from the grid, whereas on EV2-A my powerwall covers my usage for 4 additional hours.
I'm a net producer on EV2A using Time Based Control and my Powerwalls have always discharged during peak in the winter. I currently have my rates in the app set to reflect the PG&E Peak, Partial Peak, and Off Peak rates other than I've set the sell price to be $0.03/kWh lower than the actual rates to account for NBCs. So far I'm pretty happy with the results. The app does a decent job of balancing recharging the Powerwalls and home solar self-consumption to reduce the NBCs in the morning off-peak hours. I do wish the app would give priority during partial peak and peak hours to home solar self-consumption over sending all solar to the grid but I don't think there is much of a financial impact to that.
 
I'm a net producer on EV2A using Time Based Control and my Powerwalls have always discharged during peak in the winter. I currently have my rates in the app set to reflect the PG&E Peak, Partial Peak, and Off Peak rates other than I've set the sell price to be $0.03/kWh lower than the actual rates to account for NBCs. So far I'm pretty happy with the results. The app does a decent job of balancing recharging the Powerwalls and home solar self-consumption to reduce the NBCs in the morning off-peak hours. I do wish the app would give priority during partial peak and peak hours to home solar self-consumption over sending all solar to the grid but I don't think there is much of a financial impact to that.

Yup EV2A discharges during peak in the winter, but what about ETOU-C peak in the winter? The ratio is less than the round trip efficiency of the powerwall.

I’m currently on the EV2A plan as well and I don’t expect to pay anything extra beyond the minimum monthly bill at true up since I have been charging my car mostly with solar, though it is getting more difficult now during the winter
 
Yup EV2A discharges during peak in the winter, but what about ETOU-C peak in the winter? The ratio is less than the round trip efficiency of the powerwall.
I can't answer that since I haven't tried it. But if you really wanted to find out you could enter the rates in the app as if you were on ETOU-C and see what it does. But it sounds like you are better off on EV2A for your situation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tfan2018
I use an app called PGE Toolkit that helps break it down. With two electric cars I use a lot of off peak so EV2-A makes more sense, but at my parents house where there is only solar and no EVs TOU-C was much better. I wish I could still sign up for EV-A.
 

Attachments

  • 26866B5D-7C57-4F5F-86B9-DB0B5ADC639F.png
    26866B5D-7C57-4F5F-86B9-DB0B5ADC639F.png
    291.1 KB · Views: 39

BGbreeder

Active Member
Jun 19, 2020
1,179
854
Bay Area
I'm a net producer on EV2A using Time Based Control and my Powerwalls have always discharged during peak in the winter. I currently have my rates in the app set to reflect the PG&E Peak, Partial Peak, and Off Peak rates other than I've set the sell price to be $0.03/kWh lower than the actual rates to account for NBCs. So far I'm pretty happy with the results. The app does a decent job of balancing recharging the Powerwalls and home solar self-consumption to reduce the NBCs in the morning off-peak hours. I do wish the app would give priority during partial peak and peak hours to home solar self-consumption over sending all solar to the grid but I don't think there is much of a financial impact to that.
I took another 10% off the sell rates to reflect the charge/discharge inefficiencies of Powerwalls, as I wasn't confident Tesla priced the inefficiencies into their algorithm. My thinking was as long as it covered at least the NBCs, any additional ding didn't hurt.

Our charging shows the same behavior of covering us during peak always, and favors Powerwall charging first, and the switches to full solar later in the day. Like you the midpeak rate doesn't contribute much to use financially, so I haven't sweated details. If I did, I would just make peak run from noon to midnight.

All the best,

BG
 
  • Like
Reactions: RKCRLR
Do you currently have a large credit at your annual true-up? If so, then the rate plan doesn't matter and the main concern should be increasing your net exported kWh while keeping an eye on your cumulative NBCs to avoid going over your annual MDCs. An NBC is currently $0.02666/kWh and a net exported kWh should be a bit above $0.05/kWh, but this isn't an exact offset.
What is an MDC and what is an NBC? I'm new to this, PTO only 5 weeks ago.
 
Do you currently have a large credit at your annual true-up? If so, then the rate plan doesn't matter and the main concern should be increasing your net exported kWh while keeping an eye on your cumulative NBCs to avoid going over your annual MDCs. An NBC is currently $0.02666/kWh and a net exported kWh should be a bit above $0.05/kWh, but this isn't an exact offset.
What are "cumulative NBCs" and "annual MDCs"? I seem to be in transition/limbo 5 weeks after PTO, currently NEM2PS and transitioning to E-TOU-C. 5kW w/ 2 TESLA batteries.
 
  • Helpful
Reactions: jjrandorin
The barring of E-TOU-C with Powerwalls was an SGIP thing. Pretty sure lots of people have Powerwalls with E-TOU-C as long as they didn't touch the SGIP trough.
You can qualify for SGIP under a medical baseline with multiple PSPS shutoffs and keep E-TOU-C. If you qualified for another reason like a well pump in a high fire area that has had multiple PSPS shutoffs, you have to be on EV2A.
 
I’m finding this thread very interesting and useful!

I’m dizzied by the number crunching involved in finding the best fit of plan vs my usage. I’m on ETOU-C

I have all my friends with Teslas telling me I HAVE to get the EV2 plan, because you then charge your car at night off peak for the lowest rate. The thing is, none of them have battery/Solar.

My situation is I only charge my car during the day because I have a 9.6Kw solar battery system and our Tesla is 99% of the time a light daily driver so it’s essentially 100% powered by our solar. The batteries provide all the power we need from 4pm to the next day where they get fully charged by 10-11am and I’m on solar all day with plenty going back to the grid, even with car charging.

The rub for me getting an EV plan is that the off peak charge is horrendously high, and exactly when I MIGHT have to tap into the grid if I underproduce solar, while my nighttime off peak grid usage is always zero.

I’m constantly wondering if I’m doing it right… 😖
 
Last edited:
I’m finding this thread very interesting and useful!

I’m dizzied by the number crunching involved in finding the best fit of plan vs my usage. I’m on ETOU-C

I have all my friends with Teslas telling me I HAVE to get the EV2 plan, because you then charge your car at night off peak for the lowest rate. The thing is, none of them have battery/Solar.
Since you have solar and are overproducing, you're fine on ETOU-C. EV2-A can be advantageous with solar and batteries if you're paying money at true-up because you can charge during off-peak and then export during peak to generate more NEM credits. Since you'll have extra credits that expire anyway, that won't help you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dho112

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top