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Climate Change Denial

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Here is the exact quote from the EIA:

“By the 1950s, cars were becoming bigger and faster. Gasoline octane increased, and lead was added to improve engine performance.
Unleaded gasoline was introduced in the 1970s when health problems from lead became apparent.”

That is what I was referring to. I wasn’t suggestion anything. Are you suggesting that the EIA is wrong, and I should have known that?
Here's what the EIA says:

Health hazards associated with lead have been documented since the early 1920s. The U.S. Surgeon General set a voluntary standard for lead content in leaded gasoline. The standard was raised in the 1950s.

 
Here's what the EIA says:

Health hazards associated with lead have been documented since the early 1920s. The U.S. Surgeon General set a voluntary standard for lead content in leaded gasoline. The standard was raised in the 1950s.


The problems with Tetraethyl lead were known even before major oil companies began using it. In 1922, while plans for production of leaded gasoline were just getting underway, Thomas Midgley received a letter from Charles Klaus, a German scientist, stating of lead, “it’s a creeping and malicious poison” and warned that it had killed a fellow scientist. This didn’t seem to faze Midley, who himself came down with lead poisoning during the planning phase. While recovering in Miami, Midgley wrote to an oil industry engineer that public poisoning was “almost impossible, as no one will repeatedly get their hands covered in gasoline containing lead…” Other opposition to lead came from a lab director for the Public Health Service (A part of the US Department of Health and Human Services ) who wrote to the assistant surgeon general stating lead was a “serious menace to public health”.


Despite the warnings, production on leaded gasoline began in 1923. It didn’t take long for workers to begin succumbing to lead poisoning. At DuPont’s manufacturing plant in Deepwater New Jersey workers began to fall like dominoes. One worker died in the autumn of 1923. Three died in the summer of 1924 and four more in the winter of 1925. Despite this, public controversy didn’t begin until five workers died and forty-four were hospitalized in Oct. of 1924 at Standard Oils plant in Bayway NJ.
 
The problem with your analysis is that you fail to realize a corporation wants to please their customers. I don’t think I need to explain to you why.
No, corporations want to please their shareholders .. they want to manipulate their customers. Sometimes they get away with this, sometimes not. The whole lead additives fiasco is a clear example of manipulation. And your posts make it abundantly clear that they are indeed successful in these manipulations.
 
No, corporations want to please their shareholders .. they want to manipulate their customers. Sometimes they get away with this, sometimes not. The whole lead additives fiasco is a clear example of manipulation. And your posts make it abundantly clear that they are indeed successful in these manipulations.
And the best for a corporation to please the shareholders is to please the customers! If the customers are not pleased, how can shareholders be pleased with that? You think a loss of revenue will please the shareholders? You did not think that through too well did you!
 
And the best for a corporation to please the shareholders is to please the customers! If the customers are not pleased, how can shareholders be pleased with that? You think a loss of revenue will please the shareholders? You did not think that through too well did you!

... isn't.... isn't that the problem? Externalize as much of the cost as possible to keep your shareholders and customers happy? EVERYONE pays but only the shareholders and customers benefit?
 

The problems with Tetraethyl lead were known even before major oil companies began using it. In 1922, while plans for production of leaded gasoline were just getting underway, Thomas Midgley received a letter from Charles Klaus, a German scientist, stating of lead, “it’s a creeping and malicious poison” and warned that it had killed a fellow scientist. This didn’t seem to faze Midley, who himself came down with lead poisoning during the planning phase. While recovering in Miami, Midgley wrote to an oil industry engineer that public poisoning was “almost impossible, as no one will repeatedly get their hands covered in gasoline containing lead…” Other opposition to lead came from a lab director for the Public Health Service (A part of the US Department of Health and Human Services ) who wrote to the assistant surgeon general stating lead was a “serious menace to public health”.


Despite the warnings, production on leaded gasoline began in 1923. It didn’t take long for workers to begin succumbing to lead poisoning. At DuPont’s manufacturing plant in Deepwater New Jersey workers began to fall like dominoes. One worker died in the autumn of 1923. Three died in the summer of 1924 and four more in the winter of 1925. Despite this, public controversy didn’t begin until five workers died and forty-four were hospitalized in Oct. of 1924 at Standard Oils plant in Bayway NJ.
Is lead the only hazardous material on earth? You seem to think that it is. There are all kinds of toxins out there in the industrial world, and we have ways to deal with hazardous materials of all kinds. I’m sure in the early days of TEL, the engineers and toxicologists back then thought they could take precautions about how to deal with it like any other chemicals that are poisonous to humans. After 5 decades of data, they decided to get the lead out, and they did. You seem to have this deranged fixation on a toxic chemical, and are extrapolating that onto an entire industry, even to this day. How many people have been killed in automobiles? How many killed from aircraft, motorcycles, buses, trains, food poisoning, gas explosions, etc? There are all kinds of hazards out there. And we are all doing our best to deal with it. Civilization is not an easy thing to do.
 
Is lead the only hazardous material on earth? You seem to think that it is. There are all kinds of toxins out there in the industrial world, and we have ways to deal with hazardous materials of all kinds. I’m sure in the early days of TEL, the engineers and toxicologists back then thought they could take precautions about how to deal with it like any other chemicals that are poisonous to humans. After 5 decades of data, they decided to get the lead out, and they did. You seem to have this deranged fixation on a toxic chemical, and are extrapolating that onto an entire industry, even to this day. How many people have been killed in automobiles? How many killed from aircraft, motorcycles, buses, trains, food poisoning, gas explosions, etc? There are all kinds of hazards out there. And we are all doing our best to deal with it. Civilization is not an easy thing to do.
Lead is only one example of the way industry has lied and covered up their toxic products. Lots of examples.
"Better living through chemistry" used to be an industry slogan... it's now out of favor since people have figured out they are being manipulated and lied to.
All chemicals have toxic effects. Industry wants to sell chemicals so they hide the toxic effects as long as possible. They try to keep customers ignorantly "happy".
 
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Lead is only one example of the way industry has lied and covered up their toxic products. Lots of examples.
"Better living through chemistry" used to be an industry slogan... it's now out of favor since people have figured out they are being manipulated and lied to.
All chemicals have toxic effects. Industry wants to sell chemicals so they hide the toxic effects as long as possible. They try to keep customers ignorantly "happy".
So, let’s just go back to the horse and buggy, and deal with the fecal matter from horses. That seems to be your suggestion.
 
My thoughts, which I understand hardly anyone wants, are that EVs will become more common while gas cars dwindle, until eventually gas becomes too expensive (costs of exploring, drilling, shipping, fracking, shipping, pumping borne by fewer and fewer) so even more people switch to electric cars, and lead becomes less pervasive. Doesn't matter what the oil industry will say. Solar in the back yard fed to batteries, slow charging your car at night... what a concept! It's like cigarettes. Lots of poisons in there, and lots of cover up, until people quit smoking (mostly) and it didn't matter what the industry said. Eventually people will figure out that EVs are just better, in so many ways. No maintenance like oil and filter changes, no going to pump gas when you can plug in at night, more power, less noise while driving, and the only complaint I hear is it takes too long to charge while on trips, and we're working on that. Of course, using charge time to eat and hit the bathroom makes that an empty argument, too.
 
That is what I was referring to. I wasn’t suggestion anything. Are you suggesting that the EIA is wrong, and I should have known that?
You used a brief single sentence statement to try to support a weak position. A simple Google search provides plenty of actual background to show that your interpretation of this sentence is incorrect. The "when health problems from lead became apparent" doesn't necessarily mean in the 1970s. You've been pointed to other resources but seem to ignore those. This is an example of motivated reasoning.

You may or may not do some research to learn the history of lead in gasoline, it doesn't matter to me. I'm uninterested in engaging more since you appear unwilling to concede the point.
 
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And the best for a corporation to please the shareholders is to please the customers! If the customers are not pleased, how can shareholders be pleased with that? You think a loss of revenue will please the shareholders? You did not think that through too well did you!
Again, you are being naive. To be sure, you need customers to generate revenue, but do you need to actually please them? There are many ways to control customers: advertising, adjusting expectations (usually downward), monopolistic practices, contractual limitations, forced arbitration, artificial legal barriers etc etc. And all of these are used by modern corporations to manipulate and control customer expectation and demand. Sure, occasionally someone comes along to upset things, but only after a huge battle with the entrenched position. Tesla is in fact one of these disruptive companies at the moment.

There is also the consideration of long-term vs short-term shareholder return. Many executive compensation packages today are closely linked to short-term gains or financial goals, often with massive bonuses connected to these. This inevitably leads to decisions that postpone bad news or poor financial performance beyond the horizon of when these packages vest/yield for the individual executives concerned.

The fact is, corporations act to maximize profits, and they do this in any way they can get away with. One way is to please customers, but there are many others, and many of these can be far more effective (profitable) than making something better or cheaper. So we get big oil (and its executives) with a massive vested interest in denying climate change, and (even more important), denying that fossil fuels are responsible. Or didn't you think that through?
 
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Is lead the only hazardous material on earth? You seem to think that it is. There are all kinds of toxins out there in the industrial world, and we have ways to deal with hazardous materials of all kinds. I’m sure in the early days of TEL, the engineers and toxicologists back then thought they could take precautions about how to deal with it like any other chemicals that are poisonous to humans. After 5 decades of data, they decided to get the lead out, and they did. You seem to have this deranged fixation on a toxic chemical, and are extrapolating that onto an entire industry, even to this day. How many people have been killed in automobiles? How many killed from aircraft, motorcycles, buses, trains, food poisoning, gas explosions, etc? There are all kinds of hazards out there. And we are all doing our best to deal with it. Civilization is not an easy thing to do.
"Why all this fuss about trying to cure cancer? There are so many other ways people can die, why should we bother trying to fix ANY of them???"
 
You are way overthinking things too much. It is called the free market system. It is how we exchange goods and services. If that exchange is harmful in some way, we make adjustments to it and move on.

So you agree we need a carbon tax?

So, let’s just go back to the horse and buggy, and deal with the fecal matter from horses. That seems to be your suggestion.

Why not forward to electrification, wind and solar?
 
And the best for a corporation to please the shareholders is to please the customers! If the customers are not pleased, how can shareholders be pleased with that? You think a loss of revenue will please the shareholders? You did not think that through too well did you!

“You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you can not fool all the people all of the time.”
Attributed to Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865)


“Half of the people can be part right all of the time,
Some of the people can be all right part of the time.
I think Abraham Lincoln said that.
‘I'll let you be in my dreams if I can be in yours,’
I said that.”
Bob Dylan (b. 1941)
Legendary songwriter, musician, poet, actor, radio show host….
In his song “Talkin’ World War III Blues” (1963)