CyberGus
Not Just a Member
I wasn't referring to your IQ specifically, and I'm amused that you assume I was.
Besides, didn't we already establish that "reckoning" something counted as a fact, back on page 84?
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Climate Change Denial
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I wasn't referring to your IQ specifically, and I'm amused that you assume I was.
Besides, didn't we already establish that "reckoning" something counted as a fact, back on page 84?
CyberGus
Not Just a Member
Do you understand that you are mis-applying the "appeal to authority" logical fallacy?
The great Carl Sagan said "Authorities must prove their contentions like everybody else". So yes, it is a fallacy to accept the conclusions of an expert just because they are an expert, and without any supporting evidence. The work cited here (and elsewhere) contains such evidence, and as such is not an "appeal to authority" but the reference of actual published research.
I do not believe the Arctic ice is melting away to oblivion. If it was, the record 2012 September sea ice extent minimum of 3.7 million sq. km would have already been broken by now. 2021 will make 9 years in a row of the Arctic sea ice extent minimum closing higher than the 2012 minimum. I am not suggestion the Arctic ice is now increasing. But what I am suggesting is that the Arctic ice melt has now slowed down considerably, and may have stopped. It MAY start increasing over the next 30 to 40 years has part of a multi-decadal cycle.
The checkmate was over how little the global ice has declined during the satellite era. You focused on the 2016-2017 dip as an attempt to prove me wrong about something. I pointed out what caused the dip, and showed you how the Antarctic ice extent has fully recovered from its 2017 minimum. The NSIDC has 2012 demarcated as a red dashed line in the Arctic and 2017 in the Antarctic. Both the Arctic and Antarctic are above those red dashed lines.
I was not making up something about Antarctica, or "refocusing away" the discussion. Here is the report from NSIDC:
Wind was the main reason for the rapid decline of the sea ice extent around Antarctica - not human caused global warming.
Now, what am I wrong about?
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Do you yet understand that I'm not the one appealing to authority and that the person to whom I'm replying presented the Dr. as an authority as proof that there is no human induced warming, even though the Dr. admits there is human induced warming? I've explained this previously yet you still don't grasp this basic fact.
MontyFloyd
Member
We know that, Baia is an well known extreme example of that.
That is besides the point.
Simply taking pictures of coast at different times of year can be used to claim sea level fall or rise, EG, to deceive.
MontyFloyd
Member
So not really a checkmate, more like a "well sure, it's declining like you said, and more than the minimum would suggest, but maybe not as much as some people think?" I think that's more akin to taking a pawn but losing a bishop.
As others have pointed out, being selective about the minimum or summertime extent vs. annual averages is just that - selectivity. The screen shot I took in my response to you was the period from 2012-2021, not a select 2016-2017 bit. Here is your link again. Top chart, look at the 13 month rolling average.
Per the data you provided, global sea ice has declined since 2012. Has it declined catastrophically? No. But you clearly are suggesting it hasn't, and that's where you're wrong. There, and with your understanding of chess analogies.
Finally, while we don't publicly discuss moderation here, your portrayal of yourself as a victim is entirely without merit, and the reasons were explained to you at the time. Additionally, participation in any Internet forum solely for the purpose of posting in a single off-topic thread is typically a sign of someone who isn't interested in the community. Those members are likely to receive reasonable additional scrutiny. If you have questions about your moderation activity, please reach out in Conversations and I'm happy to clarify any misunderstandings.
MontyFloyd
Member
A few posts up you did just that.
OK, now I am certain you do indeed believe in Global Warming + Climate change, you are just sharpening our skills to win over those show truly do not believe that humans are changing the earth.
MontyFloyd
Member
I said this before, I will say it again.
There is ice on the moon, there is ice on the poles of Mars.
Can we live naked on the moon or Mars?
And how much ice remains on North pole is inconsequential to SLR debate.
Reading through your posts, it would appear you ARE suggesting arctic ice is increasing. Again, you are just trying to mislead everyone to delay action with the ultimate goal to keep things status quo and let the younger generation figure it out later.
SummerlinChiro
Member
SummerlinChiro
Member
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
.... where does your definition of 'hysteria' end and 'caring for the environment' begin?
Why can't you accept the reality that climate change is almost always driven by changes in CO2 levels? This can occur naturally or artificially. It's little like a forest fire. Should arson be ok since lightning exists?
A difference of opinion is fine but you can't have a difference of opinion when you start with a difference of fact. CO2 is ~40% higher because of our pathetic addiction to fools fuel. THAT IS A FACT. Higher CO2 levels are adding ~100x more thermal energy to the biosphere than all sources of energy consumption combined. THAT IS A FACT. More thermal energy in the biosphere is causing worse floods, droughts and more severe weather in general. THAT IS A FACT. The gulf is warmer because CO2 levels are higher and Ida is stronger because the gulf waters are warmer. FACT.
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Why are their people on here denying the climate crisis? My grandpa died in the heat wave here in Canada where it got up to 45 degrees Celsius or 133 degrees Fahrenheit, whole towns got destroyed by wildfire, over a billion sea animals died in a very small area (Metro Vancouver) and thousands lost their lives because of the unprecedented heat. Remember I live in CANADA. We yet again broke records for the hottest year, hottest month, driest month and least snow JUST THIS YEAR. I know it's not just my experience that proves climate change since it could just be localized incidents, but I also know there is data to back up how all of this is related to the climate crisis.
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
The same reason anti-maskers/vaxxers are killing themselves with COVID. Right-Wing ideology rots the part of the brain responsible for rational thought....
Welcome to the age of Stupid
A coal miner in a small town told my dad he wanted to buy a electric car because he was worried about how much the climate crisis was going to his grandkids... He said "when I was a kid here we used to get 15 feet of snow, now we are lucky to get 2-3." That is from someone who hasn't been told what to say by the media or his peers, he has lived through the change.
You do realize that there are other parts of the world than just the US right? That article was about the US only. Just to remind you, we are talking about GLOBAL warming.
Yup it's scary because I'm young and have to deal with all of this. In elementary/primary when they taught us about climate change but they said "recycle and you will be fine" now it's like oh crap we have a real crisis on our hands and the people and power don't generally care.The same reason anti-maskers/vaxxers are killing themselves with COVID. Right-Wing ideology rots the part of the brain responsible for rational thought....
Welcome to the age of Stupid
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