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Climate Change / Global Warming Discussion

CyberGus

Not Just a Member
May 5, 2020
821
1,777
Austin, TX
Hearts and minds are overwhelmingly in favor of restricting carbon consumption. The problem is that the polluting corporations control public policy.

I would agree that most believe in man-made climate change, but are divided on what to do about it. Ask them to stop flying, driving, and eating meat, and you'll reveal their true level of commitment.

If you cut worldwide air travel in half, then congratulations, you've reduced annual CO2 emissions by a whopping 1%. We should focus on the bigger polluters first, where the effort will have the biggest impact.
 
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Skotty

2014 S P85 | 2020 3 P19"
Jun 27, 2013
2,438
1,751
Kansas City, MO
I can't believe this thread is still going.

For the stereotype liberals, we should convert all significant power generation and transportation to renewable or non-carbon energy sources with haste.

For the stereotype conservatives, we should work hard to develop carbon capture technology and other tech or natural carbon reducing solutions to allow us to continue to consume meat at current levels, continue to use natural gas for cooking, continue to support gasoline for limited hobby automotive, and if we can't get electric working for planes, continue to use jet fuel powered aircraft.

Make it happen. Job done. Everyone can continue complaining about the other guy and how he or she made everything a nightmare but the world will be saved.
 
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nwdiver

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2013
7,732
9,946
United States
For the stereotype conservatives, we should work hard to develop carbon capture technology and other tech or natural carbon reducing solutions to allow us to continue to consume meat at current levels, continue to use natural gas for cooking, continue to support gasoline for limited hobby automotive, and if we can't get electric working for planes, continue to use jet fuel powered aircraft.

I'm down with that. Just need to make all those activities reflect the cost of capturing the carbon they emit. I suspect the 4-5x increase in cost should deter most of it therefore making the aforementioned carbon capture mostly moot. :)
 

designrs

Member
Jun 24, 2020
204
203
Jacksonville, FL
I would agree that most believe in man-made climate change, but are divided on what to do about it. Ask them to stop flying, driving, and eating meat, and you'll reveal their true level of commitment.

If you cut worldwide air travel in half, then congratulations, you've reduced annual CO2 emissions by a whopping 1%. We should focus on the bigger polluters first, where the effort will have the biggest impact.

Start with China which is #1 in C02 emissions:

1377080D-F9E2-4A06-A4AC-12F38898783B.jpeg
 

nwdiver

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2013
7,732
9,946
United States
Start with China which is #1 in C02 emissions:

View attachment 649831

Agreed; Any carbon tax needs to be coupled with a carbon tariff. That would take care of a large chunk of Chinas emissions since a lot of it comes from manufacturing stuff for the US.
 
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mspohr

Well-Known Member
Jul 27, 2014
9,220
10,747
California

roblab

Active Member
Jul 15, 2008
3,392
2,441
Angwin (Napa Valley) CA
I can't believe this thread is still going.

For the stereotype liberals, we should convert all significant power generation and transportation to renewable or non-carbon energy sources with haste.

For the stereotype conservatives, we should work hard to develop carbon capture technology and other tech or natural carbon reducing solutions to allow us to continue to consume meat at current levels, continue to use natural gas for cooking, continue to support gasoline for limited hobby automotive, and if we can't get electric working for planes, continue to use jet fuel powered aircraft.

Make it happen. Job done. Everyone can continue complaining about the other guy and how he or she made everything a nightmare but the world will be saved.
With electric high speed rail, most jet travel would be unnecessary. Especially when they get the Atlantic rail tunnel built. Yeah, right. I think the problem might be that people really don't need to get on a plane. Businesses can zoom rather than send salespeople. But we're stuck with doing things the old way, and I don't see most of us changing. Heck, we can't even get people to give up their burners for electric cars. What I hear over and over is, "They're too expensive!" when in reality they cost about the same as a Toyota or Honda for the lower priced models. Excuses, excuses.
 

ZsoZso

Supporting Member
Apr 24, 2014
1,754
10,351
Mount-island
China's total CO2 emissions nominally are "#1", yet we emit 2x the CO2 per capita. It's difficult for us to take the high ground if we aren't doing a lot more here.

He and you are both kinda / sorta / almost right. As in: the change has to start with #1.
The interpretation of #1 differs. The best interpretation, IMHO, is #1 is yourself, i.e. everyone should make the change instead of pointing fingers.
 

dhrivnak

Active Member
Jan 8, 2011
4,415
3,575
NE Tennessee
Maybe I'm not picking up the vibe that y'all are putting down, but I'd say we're already at the point where no one travels by air unless they REALLY have to. If I need to be in another city, then I need to be in another city, and frankly air travel is reasonably carbon-friendly compared to other modes.

I believe the way to attack this problem is to find better modes of transportation, instead of telling people to "travel less" or ask them to pay more just for the sake of paying more. You can't cajole people into a carbon-free future, you need to entice them.

Wanna convince someone to ditch ICE vehicles? Let them drive your Tesla for 5 minutes. Wanna reduce carbon-based air travel? Then show them something better (dirigibles? lol).

Air travel accounts for less than 3% of global CO2 output. Even cows contribute more to greenhouse emissions!
From what I have found air travel is one of the more carbon intensive ways to travel. A fuel efficient car and especially an EV is more environmentally friendly as a general rule. Now if you are comparing a coast to coast flight of one person. I agree air wins. But if two are more are traveling in a fuel efficient car, the car wins even across the country.
 

nwdiver

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2013
7,732
9,946
United States

You realize that a lot of our unusually cold weather can be traced back to the fact that the Jet Stream is weakening... right? And the Jet Stream is created by the difference in temperature between the poles and the equator. The poles are warming SIGNIFICANTLY faster than the equator causing the jet stream to weaken and cold air to come farther south than it used to.
Screen Shot 2021-04-01 at 2.08.57 PM.png
 

mspohr

Well-Known Member
Jul 27, 2014
9,220
10,747
California

“Cutting the forest is interfering with its carbon uptake; that’s a problem,” Covey tells National Geographic. “When you start to look at these other factors alongside CO2, it gets really hard to see how the net effect isn’t that the Amazon as a whole is really warming global climate.”


Part of the issue is that many of the ways in which human activities are changing the Amazon end up being double or even triple whammies when it comes to greenhouse gas emissions. Say cattle ranchers burn a patch of rainforest to create new pasture for their herd, not only is the carbon dioxide absorbing power of the trees gone, but their stored carbon is released and the newly barren soil is likely to increase its emissions of greenhouse gases such as methane and nitrous oxide. What’s more, the grazing cows belch methane, a greenhouse gas roughly 30-times more damaging than carbon dioxide. Lost forest cover can also change patterns of rainfall and make the rest of the forest hotter and drier, which also tends to increase greenhouse gas emissions.


Overall, the pattern starts to sound like a worrisome feedback loop: deforestation increases greenhouse gas emissions which increases warming, and that warming then drives increased greenhouse gas emissions, and so on.
 
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