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Climate Change / Global Warming Discussion
- Thread starter Raffy.Roma
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I do think these charts are slightly misleading, in that they discuss utility generation sources and don't appear to include any rooftop PV. For some states, that results in a not insignificant rearrangement of the percentages (Hawaii in particular). They do show what the utility itself is doing, but I don't find that to be a full view. Utilities sometimes provide incentives to homeowners to install PV, and that generation is being left out of this picture.
Hard to capture everything, I know, but I do think this makes the picture at least a little prettier.
Well that typo was mine, you can ignore that. But to use a sarcastic reference with a condescending tone on an official letter, was more than humorous.
beeeerock
Active Member
More than humorous - yes - 'refreshing'!!!
It's great to see someone calling a spade a spade - it's long past due.
Many of us have thought this, especially those who have read the book Merchants of Doubt, but here it is. So for those on the fence, it's time to hop down....
So many quotes in this article, here are a few, but you need to read the whole thing:
Exxon's Own Research Confirmed Fossil Fuels' Role in Global Warming Decades Ago | InsideClimate News
So many quotes in this article, here are a few, but you need to read the whole thing:
Exxon's Own Research Confirmed Fossil Fuels' Role in Global Warming Decades Ago | InsideClimate News
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nwdiver
Well-Known Member
We need a federal prosecutor with the cojones to bring up RICO charges against the fossil fuel cartels.
Do you guys actually understand what you are saying. If you shut down all fossil fuels today in short order the world economy would collapse. Demonizing the oil industry for a product that has provided and continues to provide the lifestyle we enjoy is ludicrous.
So short term happiness for long-term devastation for future generations, even when you are not here anymore? You are ok with that?
Take the industry's billions, put it towards renewable energy. I'm not too happy to read internal memos that the company knew what would happen and now I'm 31 and living it what they helped create. I do not want my daughter to be a young adult and her children to suffer life because people now wanted to live comfortably.
Our TMC Member Leilani Munter is fighting for the USA to get rid of fossil fuels within 2050. That is the way to go. No collapse of world economy like this.
dhrivnak
Active Member
I agree the fossil fuel industry is only giving us what we want and are paying for. If all environmentalist and people here quit buying fossil fuels then the industry would change. But as long as we buy grid power, and keep a gas car and gas lawnmower etc. They will keep providing. We have been working hard to cut the fossil fuel habit and with solar, two plug-in cars , conservation and even a battery powered we have come a long way.
We now have alternatives but too few of us are actually buying.
We now have alternatives but too few of us are actually buying.
RichardC
Cdn Sig & Solar Supporter
Pardon? No one shut down the tobacco industry. It was appropriately punished for lying to the public about the harm caused by its products! The parallels are striking. When US politicians open their mouths we hear fossil fuel money speaking. Paid denialism for commercial gain is illegal and should be prosecuted as such.
Articles like this drive me nuts. The laws of physics simply do not permit this sort of source-to-load tracking. Electricity is not like internet packets that can be tagged and tracked. All electricity produced anywhere in the Eastern Interconnection contributes, in some portion, to serve load throughout the EI.
These state-specific production numbers can quickly become skewed by actions that have little or nothing to do with state policies. E.g., Delaware looks like a great actor because its coal-fired generation went down. What happened in fact was that the private company that owned the largest coal generators in the state shut them down for economic reasons. All the power that used to be generated in Delaware is now generated somewhere else, using a mix of coal and other fossil fuels. (And yes, I'm discounting the possibility that any of it is driven by new renewables: more renewable generation is not being built in the mid-Atlantic in response to very slight increase in wholesale power prices caused by the retirement of a coal-fired plant in Delaware.)
Having ranted on about the state-specific accounting, the bigger regional and national pictures DO tell us something about shifting economics and policy impacts. It's encouraging, but not happening fast enough -- and won't as long as installing and integrating renewable power on the grid remains more expensive than fossil. Wind and solar costs are moving down in that direction; more cheap sources are needed, and cheap storage is needed.
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I agree with this, because you wrote "today". You're absolutely correct, that if we outlawed the use of fossil fuels effective Oct. 1, 2015, things would go very, very badly. Globally we have invested untold trillions into an infrastructure to find, extract, transport, refine, and use fossil fuels to meet our energy needs, and until new infrastructure is in place to bring renewable power to end users, we cannot fully cut over.
But that's a strawman argument. No one here is suggesting any such policy. My question back to you is this: why should society be spending trillions of dollars each year on long-lived infrastructure--coal-fired power plants, oil pipelines, and the like--that we know we need to be using less of over the next twenty years? Is that really prudent?
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
Exxon Respondes to allegations...
I don't think anyone on this forum has claimed we can quit fossil fuels overnight; It's obviously a severe addiction... we don't want our economy to end up like Amy Winehouse... it's certainly time for rehab...
We're barely cutting back as a society... we're still at Scarface levels of consumption....
I don't think anyone on this forum has claimed we can quit fossil fuels overnight; It's obviously a severe addiction... we don't want our economy to end up like Amy Winehouse... it's certainly time for rehab...
We're barely cutting back as a society... we're still at Scarface levels of consumption....
Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
This article describes something Norway did very right, together with Brazil. Good analysis can lead to the best "bang for the buck" when working against climate change, ocean acidification etc (deforestation is a problem second only to the burning of fossil fuels)
Norway rewards Brazil with $1 billion for keeping the Amazon full of trees - Quartz
Norway rewards Brazil with $1 billion for keeping the Amazon full of trees - Quartz
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