Cold drive update - 250 km total round trip report

[dusdev]

Quick update for those looking at data on range. This is with an LR AWD. On the weekend I did a 252 km total round trip. About 90% highway and 10% city, with some stop-and-go highway traffic. I did not really try and reduce power usage. I charged to around 95% before departing (reported 477 km avail range on depart). Outside temperature started around -2C and dropped to -6C on the return drive.

I mostly had the heat at 19C, one or two seat warmers for most of the drive.

Importantly, since I was not concerned with power consumption I just drove at whatever speed I felt like. Used Autopilot for around 75% of the total drive. Average highway speed would have been around 120 km/h. Some stretches were faster around 125 and some 130 km/h.

Upon return home I had 102 km range remaining. So nominally used 375 of range to drive 252 km.

TLDR winter drive in average -5C cold, at avg 125 km/hr with around 25 km city driving resulted in 252/375 = 67.2% range efficiency. Or effectively total range loss of 123 km. This would have brought my total range potential with this driving style to 320 km. Made no real effort to reduce power usage (kept heater on, kept speed pretty high). Overall relatively happy with the result as it meets 99% of my travel use cases.

 

[5_+JqckQttqck]

Quick update for those looking at data on range. This is with an LR AWD. On the weekend I did a 252 km total round trip. About 90% highway and 10% city, with some stop-and-go highway traffic. I did not really try and reduce power usage. I charged to around 95% before departing (reported 477 km avail range on depart). Outside temperature started around -2C and dropped to -6C on the return drive.

I mostly had the heat at 19C, one or two seat warmers for most of the drive.

Importantly, since I was not concerned with power consumption I just drove at whatever speed I felt like. Used Autopilot for around 75% of the total drive. Average highway speed would have been around 120 km/h. Some stretches were faster around 125 and some 130 km/h.

Upon return home I had 102 km range remaining. So nominally used 375 of range to drive 252 km.

TLDR winter drive in average -5C cold, at avg 125 km/hr with around 25 km city driving resulted in 252/375 = 67.2% range efficiency. Or effectively total range loss of 123 km. This would have brought my total range potential with this driving style to 320 km. Made no real effort to reduce power usage (kept heater on, kept speed pretty high). Overall relatively happy with the result as it meets 99% of my travel use cases.

That seems to be the cost of heating (~1.5 : 1 ratio) vs summer numbers. My daily 120km commute consumes just above 200km of battery.

 

[TOFLYIN]

Wow it really makes a difference to slow down. I did the drive from Toronto to Kingston the other day (not really cold, but definitely not warm! 3 C). Hwy 401, 100 km/hr to see what the range would be in colder weather. Forgot to pre heat the car, but did charge to 100 % right before I left, showed 497 km range. Arrived in Kingston showing 270.4 Km trip, 44 kWh used, 163 Wh/km and 186 Km range remaining. Cabin set to 20 C for heat. Charged for free (level 2) in Kingston for 3 hours and made it home with 4% remaining.

 

[swotam]

I did a drive on Jan 1 from Milton, Ontario to Hudson, QC. Mostly highway driving, heater running around 20 C, and minimal seat heater use. Stopped at the Kingston SC (got to take advantage of that free 6 months ), and again at the Cornwall SC to top up. It was my first road trip and with the cold weather I wanted to be conservative with the battery % estimates from the vehicle so I stopped to Supercharge twice as opposed to going with the single stop recommendation in the Trip Planner that had me arriving at my destination with 4% charge. I didn't have the warm fuzzies about that one, not much room for error or unexpected situations.

I left Milton with 98% charge and arrived in Kingston (302 Km) with 18%. Charged to 85% and arrived at Cornwall (180 Km) with 31%. Charged again to 60% and then finished the drive (90 Km) with 36% available. Temps were dropping to around -5 C by the end of the drive and efficiency dropped a fair bit during the last couple of hours. Total Supercharging time was 70 minutes. Average speed was around 105 Km/h. I used EAP and NOA for the majority of the highway driving.

TeslaFi (referral link) shows the following info for the day:

• Total Kilometers 573.48
• Rated Kilometers Used 805.35
• Efficiency 71.21%
• kWh Used 111.88 kW
• Wh/km 195 Wh
• Average Temp -1.24 C

There's definitely a noticeable hit with the colder weather and the fan running, but as long as you plan your charging stops appropriately there shouldn't be cause for concern. If you are still new to the vehicle and not totally comfortable with the trip planner battery percentage estimates I'd definitely suggest planning Supercharging stops based on comfort level and not based on what the trip planner suggests.

 

[Insilin]

I actually did a similar commute December 28th, drove to Montreal from Toronto. I averaged around 180 Wh/km. Had to charge twice for sanity as well Kingston and Cornwall. On the way back temperatures were really cold -10 C. I averaged around 240 Wh/km and I was going pretty quick as well which probably explains that greater loss

 

[Jerk]

Quick update for those looking at data on range. This is with an LR AWD. On the weekend I did a 252 km total round trip. About 90% highway and 10% city, with some stop-and-go highway traffic. I did not really try and reduce power usage. I charged to around 95% before departing (reported 477 km avail range on depart). Outside temperature started around -2C and dropped to -6C on the return drive.
Try doing that drive in cold weather ie. -20c and below, its torture. SC is super slow @ 30 to 35 kWh.

 

[Struja]

Wow it really makes a difference to slow down. I did the drive from Toronto to Kingston the other day (not really cold, but definitely not warm! 3 C). Hwy 401, 100 km/hr to see what the range would be in colder weather. Forgot to pre heat the car, but did charge to 100 % right before I left, showed 497 km range. Arrived in Kingston showing 270.4 Km trip, 44 kWh used, 163 Wh/km and 186 Km range remaining. Cabin set to 20 C for heat. Charged for free (level 2) in Kingston for 3 hours and made it home with 4% remaining.

No doubt speed is the biggest factor in conserving energy... only problem is that when you are driving on the 401, I typically drive at 119km/hr and that seems like I am the slowest car on the road, let alone 100km/hr.

We drove from Toronto to Detroit on December 23 and my wife actually asked me to speed up because she said "everyone is passing you and you're driving like a grandfather" even though I was set at my obligatory 119km/hr. Truth be told, I was being passed by virtually everyone around me, so I could not imaging driving 100km/hr on the 401.

 

[thesteve]

We drove from Toronto to Detroit on December 23 and my wife actually asked me to speed up because she said "everyone is passing you and you're driving like a grandfather" even though I was set at my obligatory 119km/hr. Truth be told, I was being passed by virtually everyone around me, so I could not imaging driving 100km/hr on the 401.

I used to take this route to work long ago, if you set cruise to 128km/hr you can even speed by cops they won't pull you over, they are looking for 130+ lol. Ok I know this goes against conserving energy. Speed up granpa!

 

[dusdev]

No doubt speed is the biggest factor in conserving energy... only problem is that when you are driving on the 401, I typically drive at 119km/hr and that seems like I am the slowest car on the road, let alone 100km/hr.

I'm not sure that's entirely true. Consider the incremental difference between say, 100, 120, or 130 km/h compared to changing the ambient heat setting from OFF, to 18C to 22C etc. It's been suggested a few times for a software update feature where the car can give you some more details about where the power is going would be useful. I agree.

If I consider the time savings of going faster I think it's a good net gain (assuming you can reach your destination or a SC) to go around 120 km/h. For example, if I have 200 km to the SC:

200/100 km/h = 2 hr
200/120 km/h = 1 hr 40 min (save 20 minutes)
200/130 km/h = 1 hr 32 min (save 28 minutes)

Now looking at the potential power usage (in cold at -15C); according to (according to abetterrouteplanner). Assuming that the SC gives you 70 kW.

100 km/h: 198 Wh/km (total power 198*200 = 39.6 kWh); charge time 33 minutes
120 km/h: 213 Wh/km (total power 213*200 = 42.6 kWh); charge time 35 minutes
130 km/h: 223 Wh/km (total power 223*200 = 44.6 kWh); charge time 37 minutes

So accounting for the increased charge time:

100 km/h: reference (total time: 2 hrs 33 minutes)
120 km/h: net saving 18 minutes after charging (total time: 2 hrs 15 minutes)
130 km/h: net saving 23 minutes after charging (total time: 2 hrs 9 minutes)

It would seem to me that nominally 120 km/h would be a relatively good tradeoff. Going to 130 would only save a net ~6 minutes over 2 hours - probably not worth the risk of a speeding ticket.

 

[TOFLYIN]

No doubt speed is the biggest factor in conserving energy... only problem is that when you are driving on the 401, I typically drive at 119km/hr and that seems like I am the slowest car on the road, let alone 100km/hr.

We drove from Toronto to Detroit on December 23 and my wife actually asked me to speed up because she said "everyone is passing you and you're driving like a grandfather" even though I was set at my obligatory 119km/hr. Truth be told, I was being passed by virtually everyone around me, so I could not imaging driving 100km/hr on the 401.

I used to be a fast driver. Cursing and swearing at the idiots getting in my way. My time was valuable, didn't those idiots know that! Then I realized that I was driving fast just to get home and watch TV or something similar. I decided to do an experiment and drive the speed limit for 5 tanks of gas to see how much I saved. It shocked me. People will line up for gas (OK not my problem any more) for 10 min just to save 5 cents a litre! Just look at any Costco gas station for proof. If they drove the speed limit the would not use up much more than that 10 min per tank, and save money (and the environment). The second, and most surprising thing, I found during my speed limit experiment was how much more relaxing the drive was. I was driving over 45,000 Km a year, and really not enjoying it. Slowing down meant I wasn't cursing other drivers (as much), wasn't concerned about cops etc.

Now here is the big point. Stay in the slow lane! Let the others pass you. So what. They are not racing you. They have their own problems in their own lives and forget you as soon as they have passed you. Put the autopilot on and relax. If someone merges onto the highway in front of you your car will slow and then speed up again. Enjoy the drive. Leave for work 5 min earlier and arrive relaxed. Your co-workers and boss will notice the change in your temperament. Promotions and riches will follow!

Recap: Slow down, save lives, the environment, brakes, tires, money and nerves.

Now before you explain just why you have to drive fast, think about it. Oh and the argument that driving slow on the highway is dangerous is just BS. It is only dangerous because of people not obeying the law. You know the law that people much smarter than you used actual data and thought in making. Oh sorry I forgot just how valuable your time was.

 

[dusdev]

Recap: Slow down, save lives, the environment, brakes, tires, money and nerves.

Most studies on highway speeds show that the safety issues are a result of speed differentials and not absolute speed. Driving too slow in any lane is a bigger issue than driving fast as long as driving fast is going with the flow of traffic.

I think it's pretty common for 401 Ontario traffic to flow around 120 km/h in normal weather. Fast lane drivers are 130-140. In my opinion, all traffic except for a few exceptions (large transport trucks, damaged vehicles, etc) should be driving at 120 km/h on the 401. This is what the highway was designed for. The cops know it and don't pull anyone over for it.

Here's the data on speed differentials: Solomon curve - Wikipedia

 

[bijan]

Most studies on highway speeds show that the safety issues are a result of speed differentials and not absolute speed. Driving too slow in any lane is a bigger issue than driving fast as long as driving fast is going with the flow of traffic.

I think it's pretty common for 401 Ontario traffic to flow around 120 km/h in normal weather. Fast lane drivers are 130-140. In my opinion, all traffic except for a few exceptions (large transport trucks, damaged vehicles, etc) should be driving at 120 km/h on the 401. This is what the highway was designed for. The cops know it and don't pull anyone over for it.

Here's the data on speed differentials: Solomon curve - Wikipedia

Really depends where on 401. So so much traffic in and around Toronto, especially between 400 and 404. Also driving Toronto/Montreal two lanes and right lane is just trucks going 110 km/h. And those trucks have to go around people going 100 km/h.

Also always seems to be when I'm driving back from Montreal to Toronto there's always people going 100-110 in the fast lane when I get back to Toronto from Oshawa to 404, have to pass on inside lanes all the time.

 

[McFlurri]

I used to take this route to work long ago, if you set cruise to 128km/hr you can even speed by cops they won't pull you over, they are looking for 130+ lol. Ok I know this goes against conserving energy. Speed up granpa!

Former OPP here.

That depends on the officer. Some select 30+/km while others select 20+/km as their limit. Hell.. some even go for 15/km as thats when the points kick in.

This is why i go no more than 14km/hr over the limit. Because you dont know which officer your going to get.

Typically i don't drive the toronto to Montreal 401 corridor but i used to when i was stationed in Petawawa. The average speed is at least 125km/hr...

Please don't speed up. It's dangerous and at the very least... it's much less efficient.

 

[5_+JqckQttqck]

Really depends where on 401. So so much traffic in and around Toronto, especially between 400 and 404. Also driving Toronto/Montreal two lanes and right lane is just trucks going 110 km/h. And those trucks have to go around people going 100 km/h.

Also always seems to be when I'm driving back from Montreal to Toronto there's always people going 100-110 in the fast lane when I get back to Toronto from Oshawa to 404, have to pass on inside lanes all the time.

The issue stems from the lack of education required to earn the driver's license. You can do the whole in class in a weekend and go to Aurora to pass the driver's test - total BS considering that driver will be back in the GTA causing accidents in a week in a beater. Your home postal code is where the driving test should take place; would remove a lot of unqualified/under practiced drivers from our roads and save tons of time and money for everyone using the roads.

 

[swotam]

The issue stems from the lack of education required to earn the driver's license.

Agree 100%. I'm "old" and learned to drive back in the day when you couldn't pay some generic driving school $200 to teach you the bare minimum required to pass the test. I had to actually attend a driving school for classroom work, learn all the rules of the road before getting into a car, learn braking techniques, defensive driving, and had to pass exams at the driving school well before "graduating" so I could take the road test.

Many drivers I see these days seem to have no idea about the "rules of the road", one of which is typically to get out of the left lane unless you are passing (or driving fast enough to be passing everyone else).

And don't get me started on the endless stream of idiots I see staring at their phones while driving or sitting at green lights...

 

[SSedan]

Aggressively preheating the car connected to charging equipment can help cold weather consumption a fair amount.
As can charging at as high a rate as possible right before you leave so the battery is good and warm.

 

[iMoe]

Former OPP here.

That depends on the officer. Some select 30+/km while others select 20+/km as their limit. Hell.. some even go for 15/km as thats when the points kick in.

This is why i go no more than 14km/hr over the limit. Because you dont know which officer your going to get.

Typically i don't drive the toronto to Montreal 401 corridor but i used to when i was stationed in Petawawa. The average speed is at least 125km/hr...

Please don't speed up. It's dangerous and at the very least... it's much less efficient.

Hello @McFlurri and thanks for chiming in as I've always wanted to ask this to a police officer but never had an opportunity. What is the resolution of the speed detectors used around the country (I'm from BC)? Could 114 maybe register as 116 and get you a ticket?
I always wonder if I should dial it down a few notches in case that could be an issue .

 

[McFlurri]

Hello @McFlurri and thanks for chiming in as I've always wanted to ask this to a police officer but never had an opportunity. What is the resolution of the speed detectors used around the country (I'm from BC)? Could 114 maybe register as 116 and get you a ticket?
I always wonder if I should dial it down a few notches in case that could be an issue .

@iMoe
It's kind of a complicated answer.

If the radar unit is pointed at the moving object (whether the object is approaching the unit or leaving), then the speed displayed is 100% accurate. This is verified at the beginning of every officer's shift by confirming the digital readout displayed on the radar unit (use of the installed vehicle's speedometer and cross referenced using GPS). Then the officer makes a note in their evidence notebook that they conducted a radar unit calibration check. This is done to show in court that the unit was in 100% working condition.

With that said, it then comes down to the placement of the radar. This is where mathematics plays a role. Remember SIN and COS from math class? well, you have to realize that while Radar is great, the perceived speed of an object changes depending on where in the radar cone the object was picked up.

example;
If there is a cop conducting radar speed enforcement on a 4 lane roadway (2 lanes each direction), and the cop tags you while your in the "slow" lane opposite of them, the radar unit will accurately verify your speed until you get closer to the cop. The closer you get without the radar unit being physically readjusted (without the cop pointing the radar unit directly at you), then your car will show up on the cop's radar unit inaccurately. Sometimes it shows you as going slower than you really are, while other scenarios it will show you going faster than you actually were. That's where the SIN and COS come in. If you want to completely verify that the radar unit has shown the correct speed, you need to know the location of the cop and the location of the target vehicle and the angle from where the radar unit is pointing to where it picked up on the target.

This discrepancy/ shortfall of speed radar enforcement has been known for a long time now. Radar tech is pretty damn cool actually. back in the day, you could place the radar unit around a bend in the road, and bounce the radar waves around the bend using the guard rail and still pick up a target object. So even if they slowed down around the corner, it was waaay too late. The cop would already be prepping to pull you over.

Nowadays, that is not allowed. What needs to be done now in the officer's notes is;

example: On January 11th 2019 at approximately 0135hrs, I Cst. McFlurri #730 observed a Red Tesla Model 3 travelling at a high rate of speed S/B on HWY 401. At that time I activated the on-board radar unit and verified that the Subject (iMoe) was travelling at 127km/hr. I then activated my emergency lights and pulled the vehicle over to the right shoulder. The Subject claimed that the vehicle was driving itself and he had no knowledge of the vehicle's speed at the time of infraction. I issued PON# 19-124569 for "being a dumbass". I then instructed the Subject to follow up by trying to sue CEO Elon Musk for making such and awesomely fast vehicle and wished him good luck. At approximately 0149hrs I was clear from this incident.


As you can see in my example, the officer now needs to clearly see with his/ her own eyes that an infraction has or is occurring and the radar unit is used as a tool to verify said infraction.

 

[iMoe]

Thank you sir for a fantastic answer.
Cheers.

 

[mociaf9]

I issued PON# 19-124569 for "being a dumbass"

This should seriously be a citable offense the world over.