Cold Weather Efficiency Impacts

[realtycoon]

Hi, I'm considering an upgrade to a Model Y AWD from my current Model 3 RWD LR. Now with the cold weather, what are people seeing as the range hit on average?

For my Model 3 I usually get 150 wh/KM in the Summer and 200ish wh/KM in the Winter (0C and below). (Approximately 240 wh/Mile Summer, 320 wh/Mile Winter).

Also, how's the heat pump in the cold winter temperatures, any issues when the weather gets cold?

Thanks

 

[jcanoe]

Bjørn Nyland has a made number of videos that compare the Model 3 with and without the heat pump.

https://www.youtube.com/user/bjornnyland/videos

 

[Areech]

 

[DietPepsi]

I don't know for others my Y has 13000km on it and at temperatures of -10 to -15 C it is brutal. I am getting half the distance to what it was this summer. i.e. if mY indicates 400 km left before recharge I can only travel 200 km before I have to recharge

 

[Firedude2020]

I don't know for others my Y has 13000km on it and at temperatures of -10 to -15 C it is brutal. I am getting half the distance to what it was this summer. i.e. if mY indicates 400 km left before recharge I can only travel 200 km before I have to recharge

Yep the exact same here. Out of a 505 km Full Charge, I’m lucky if I get 250-300km.
I’m in Canada, (Barrie to be specific). Right in the snow belt.

 

[MP3Mike]

I don't know for others my Y has 13000km on it and at temperatures of -10 to -15 C it is brutal. I am getting half the distance to what it was this summer. i.e. if mY indicates 400 km left before recharge I can only travel 200 km before I have to recharge

Are you saying that in the summer you were able to drive the range it displayed?

 

[jcanoe]

Have you been able to determine how much of the lower winter driving efficiency is due to the winter tires?

 

[Firedude2020]

Have you been able to determine how much of the lower winter driving efficiency is due to the winter tires?

Haven’t put winters on....yet. Guess that will drop even more....Yikes.

 

[SSedan]

A big part of winter efficiency loses is initial cabin heating. If you need the range preheat longer while plugged in, also on long drives efficiency wont be hurt as bad as daily driving because you may omly initially heat the cabin once for the charge.
I am sure some of you get this but others might not realize it yet

 

[michaelnorbert]

In Ottawa I'm getting about 330 wh/km when temp is -10c, ~220 at 0c.

-17c in Ottawa with a high of -13c. Drove 30km and used 28.6kWh in MY. Preheated initially on charger at home, but afterwards using battery, 7 trips total. Works out to 953wh/km. While driving averaged 330wh/km, rest was preheating off of battery or keeping car in dog mode while inside stores shopping. Why come back to a cold car when it can be nice and toasty.

 

[DietPepsi]

Are you saying that in the summer you were able to drive the range it displayed?

Yes nearly bang on

 

[SSedan]

If you aren't on the interstate, rated range isn't that hard to achieve.

 

[Carbon888]

255 wh/km, 13 % left from 90%, only got 185km out of it. 2 degrees in Vancouver, Canada but feels colder. I guess this is normal after reading some of the posts here

 

[acarney]

255 wh/km, 13 % left from 90%, only got 185km out of it. 2 degrees in Vancouver, Canada but feels colder. I guess this is normal after reading some of the posts here

400 Wh/mi seems a little high... I would expect more like 350 to 370 Wh/mi but it depends at the speed. We’re you at like 75 or 80mph?

 

[Carbon888]

400 Wh/mi seems a little high... I would expect more like 350 to 370 Wh/mi but it depends at the speed. We’re you at like 75 or 80mph?

I was mostly below 100 km (60 mph) but then again I do a lot of short trips and I get cold easily so I turn up the heat usually to 3 then lowering it to 1 gradually. I can't wait till the summer when I can see how much my range will improve. It will be my first summer with the car but in the Summer I will be using AC, is that as bad as the heat on range?

 

[acarney]

I was mostly below 100 km (60 mph) but then again I do a lot of short trips and I get cold easily so I turn up the heat usually to 3 then lowering it to 1 gradually. I can't wait till the summer when I can see how much my range will improve. It will be my first summer with the car but in the Summer I will be using AC, is that as bad as the heat on range?

Not nearly as bad. Possibly if the car is 120F+ and you pre-cool it to 65 or 70, drive ten minutes and then let the car sit for another hour and repeat this a bunch of time then yes, you’ll notice some decent range losses. However, once that cabin is cool the AC doesn’t use near the energy of the heat.

 

[drotto25]

In less chilly NJ temperatures I am seeing about a 25% to 30% drop.

 

[Boston car guy]

Hi, I'm considering an upgrade to a Model Y AWD from my current Model 3 RWD LR. Now with the cold weather, what are people seeing as the range hit on average?

For my Model 3 I usually get 150 wh/KM in the Summer and 200ish wh/KM in the Winter (0C and below). (Approximately 240 wh/Mile Summer, 320 wh/Mile Winter).

Also, how's the heat pump in the cold winter temperatures, any issues when the weather gets cold?

Thanks

I live in Framingham MA - i find that in the cold winter temps 30o or colder i get 40% less range than the gauge shows. In the warmer weather i was getting the range that the car showed.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

255 wh/km, 13 % left from 90%, only got 185km out of it. 2 degrees in Vancouver, Canada but feels colder. I guess this is normal after reading some of the posts here

This doesn't compute.

255Wh/km*185km = 47.1kWh

(The 148Wh/rkm used here is an estimate, not sure of the exact value, but this is close.)

47.1kWh/(0.955*~148Wh/rkm) = 333rkm used. (rkm = rated kilometers)

The 0.955 factor accounts for the displayed rated kilometers being 95.5% of the actual rated value in terms of energy content, due to the 4.5% buffer.

333rkm is 63% of 525 rated km. But you used ~77%, which for a new vehicle would be 404 rated kilometers. (100% is 525 rated km)

So it looks to me like you used about 77 rated kilometers, or 10.9kWh (77rkm*0.955*148Wh/rkm), while in Park.

For an actual long drive, where it mattered (for range - your number does matter for efficiency), 255Wh/km would yield about 525rkm*0.955*148Wh/rkm / (255Wh/km) = 291km for a 100% charge, or 262km for a 90% charge, discharging to 0%. This result assumes a vehicle at maximum initial capacity of 77-78kWh, and assumes you don't attempt to drive into the ~3kWh buffer below 0% (don't do that).


Flipping this around, as per @SSedan below, you actually got 0.955*77.5kWh*0.77/185km = 309Wh/km efficiency. Not 255Wh/km as displayed in the vehicle. Again, assuming a vehicle at maximum capacity (you gave % so there's no way to tell).

So a minimum of about a 54Wh/km hit, mostly due to cold weather (preheating cabin, Sentry, etc.). The exact hit there due to cold weather depends on how long an interval between charges you were looking at. And a portion of that 255Wh/km is also due to cold weather. Both impacts will go down if you are driving further and faster and charging more frequently.

 

[SSedan]

I wish we could refer to long distance energy consumption concerns as range discussion and around home daily driving as efficiency.

Daily driving and errands mean a high number of initial cabin heating events. Where as a long trip might mean just 1-2 initial cabin heating events for a full charge.

I could claim a 70% range hit in cold weather due to Green Bay getting sub-zero combined with my 7 mile drive. I don't make that claim though because if I am using actual range as in worrying about how far I can go I am not reheating the cabin every 7 miles. On a long trip in single.digits I don't think I saw but a 10-15% hit.