Comparative EV Energy Economy

[SageBrush]

My household has owned the LEAF, Prime PHEV, and Tesla Model 3. I admit that I don't spend as much attention to fuel economy as I used to but yesterday's drive up a mountain in our Model 3 was so impressive that I started comparing to our other EVs

LEAF: used only in town/suburbia driving. In temperate weather ~ 175 Wh/mile. Best results are ~ 140 Wh/mile

Prime: Amazing fuel economy in small town driving. My best results were 100 Wh/mile round trip in ideal driving but 130 - 140 Wh/mile were routine.

Model 3: In temperate weather in suburbia ~ 180 Wh/mile. We live in the foothills of a mountain that hits 10,400 feet at its peak. Yesterday we drove to the top for hiking. The round trip is 78 miles, and net elevation climb is ~ 4,000 feet. The drive up consumed 376 Wh/mile and the drive home -22 Wh/mile for a net consumption of 177 Wh/mile. That is pretty remarkable -- consumption up and down a mountain about the same as suburbia driving. It demonstrates that while the Model 3 gives up some daily driving energy economy due mostly to weight from the large battery, it can shine when exemplary regen is the name of the game.

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Tangent:
I used to argue with a Prime owning Engineer who thought that EVs could never reach the performance of long range ICE or hydrogen cars due to the weight penalty. He is wrong for a couple of reasons but second * among them is that his rule of thumb does not apply in an EV world where a good drivetrain and a large battery have outstanding regen.

* First reason of course is that long distance driving is highway driving where the weight penalty reduces to rolling resistance, m*g*f

 

[SageBrush]

Wrong thread.

 

[jkirkwood001]

...
Prime: Amazing fuel economy in small town driving. My best results were 100 Wh/mile round trip in ideal driving but 130 - 140 Wh/mile were routine...

I may be missing something, but isn't the Prius Prime's battery use supplemented by gas? It's not a BEV, so that's not an apples-to-apples comparison, no?

 

[SageBrush]

I may be missing something, but isn't the Prius Prime's battery use supplemented by gas? It's not a BEV, so that's not an apples-to-apples comparison, no?

Prime is plug-in hybrid. When the battery is empty it switches to petrol.
If you like, it is an EV ... until it is not.

When I owned a Prime all my in-town driving was EV. The longer 90 mile commute to work was EV for the first ~ 35 miles and then petrol hybrid mode for the remainder.

In the OP I mentioned energy efficiency while the car was in EV mode. And I always make it a point to only use A->B->A trips when discussing energy consumption.

I honestly do not know why the Prime had such stellar EV energy economy. It was not the difference in CdA compared to the Model 3, and although it is a lighter car I am talking about drives in each car where no friction brakes were used and very, very little regen as well. My driving habits were formed from years of driving hybrids and I naturally coast when I want to slow down.

 

[KenC]

The best I ever got in my 2016 Chevy Volt was 210Wh/mile, on rolling country roads, 60mph max, 45mph avg.

On the same rolling country roads, I've gotten 190Wh/mile in my Model 3 LR-AWD. In the Volt, I was trying to maximize the range of my 14kWh battery pack, to avoid having the ICE turn on. In the Model 3, I just drive. I've been so surprised at how efficient the Model 3 is. You just assume the sportier, the less efficient, but it's not. On the highway, the Volt used about 350Wh/mile. So inefficient, that I used the ICE on the highway, and saved the battery for driving around town.

 

[jkirkwood001]

Prime is plug-in hybrid. When the battery is empty it switches to petrol.
If you like, it is an EV ... until it is not.

When I owned a Prime all my in-town driving was EV. The longer 90 mile commute to work was EV for the first ~ 35 miles and then petrol hybrid mode for the remainder.

In the OP I mentioned energy efficiency while the car was in EV mode. And I always make it a point to only use A->B->A trips when discussing energy consumption.

I honestly do not know why the Prime had such stellar EV energy economy. It was not the difference in CdA compared to the Model 3, and although it is a lighter car I am talking about drives in each car where no friction brakes were used and very, very little regen as well. My driving habits were formed from years of driving hybrids and I naturally coast when I want to slow down.

I thought the Prime had an option to drive in pure EV mode, but by default, it uses the gas engine as required, e.g. under acceleration:

(Toyota dealer FAQ)

Q: Do I need gas in the tank?
A: You should never drive Prius Prime without gasoline in the tank. While, under certain conditions, you may drive on electricity alone, the vehicle always requires gasoline to operate properly.​

 

[one2many]

Strange one here.
My 24kwh leaf can do 100km at 90kmh.
A model 3 can do 400km at 160 kmh.
I would have to charge the leaf 3 times at an hour per charge.

 

[SageBrush]

I thought the Prime had an option to drive in pure EV mode, but by default, it uses the gas engine as required, e.g. under acceleration:

The details are nuanced and of little interest to this forum.
My OP referred to 100% EV driving

 

[jkirkwood001]

The details are nuanced and of little interest to this forum.
My OP referred to 100% EV driving

Thanks for clarifying, @SageBrush .

Prime 0-60 :15 sec in EV mode

Tangerines-to-oranges comparison in my mind, but "all-other-things-being-equal", your math now makes sense to me!

 

[SageBrush]

Prime 0-60 :15 sec in EV mode

That is probably true LOL
Needless to say, my in-town driving for best EV efficiency did not include drag racing

 

[camalaio]

Your efficiency is an absolute unicorn. That's about 110 Wh/km, which I can only get on a nice day without using climate control and driving slow in the city. I suppose your mountain drive was a slow one though?

Would be interesting as additional comparison to know their standby drain. At a median of 1.33kWh/day or 487kWh/year (roughly 2000 rated miles or 3250 rated km) I would consider the Tesla a bit wasteful, but I don't know if other EVs do better in this regard.

 

[SageBrush]

Your efficiency is an absolute unicorn. That's about 110 Wh/km, which I can only get on a nice day without using climate control and driving slow in the city.

Right.

I suppose your mountain drive was a slow one though?

Right again

 

[tashtibet]

I have been driving EVs since 2016 and never care about all these numbers-just enjoy & chill. Life is great when you don't go to the gas stations, dealers, mechanics etc.

 

[afadeev]

LEAF: used only in town/suburbia driving. In temperate weather ~ 175 Wh/mile. Best results are ~ 140 Wh/mile

Prime: Amazing fuel economy in small town driving. My best results were 100 Wh/mile round trip in ideal driving but 130 - 140 Wh/mile were routine.

Model 3: In temperate weather in suburbia ~ 180 Wh/mile.

Good data points.
~180 Wh/mile in Model 3 is remarkable (implies 416 mile range on 75 KWh battery)!

I will add mine:
Model 3 Performance: Cumulative average consumption after 14K miles is 302 Wh/mile. It got as low as 278 Wh/mile in the summer, but (the however mild) winter and a few highway road-trips have been steadily raising the average lately.

BMW i3 REX: Cumulative average consumption after 23.5K miles and 2 years was 256.4 Wh/mile.

BMW i3 BEV: Cumulative average consumption after 20.5K miles and 2 years was 208.3 Wh/mile.

The above scenarios covered the same driving / commuting profile of