Connecting to Powerwall3 when Internet is down

[IsleDriver]

We recently had a Powerwall3 installed, Gateway2, and 11 Silfab solar panels (just enough solar to provide a bit of power during an extended power outage). Cool tech. The PW3 has some great capabilities that the PW2 didn't have.

One big question: What is the procedure to get data connectivity to the PW3 when the Internet is down? While the PW3 will keep my WIFI up, it is highly likely here that Comcast will go down during many power outages. In fact, we had a 15 minute Comcast outage recently, and the Tesla App merely said something like "Check Network Connectivity" and we couldn't even get a notification from the PW3 that an outage had occurred, or see the event log.

There is a Tesla web page that provides a procedure to connect to the PW3 via Bluetooth when the Internet is down, but it starts with "tap 'Device Offline'". During that outage we never got "Device Offline". We just got "Check Network Connectivity". Similarly, I'm simulating a network outage by Pausing internet connectivity to the PW3 on my WIFI. When I do this, I can go into Settings on the app and see that it isn't connected to WIFI. Sometimes it'll say "Check Network Connectivity", but mostly it won't say anything, and will look like all's well, but the data doesn't update.

I've read (but don't see in the app) that the PW3 has Cellular backup, but where we live cell signals are...at best...abysmal, so I doubt it can get a cell signal. And since there is no data updating....

Our installer doesn't have any insight in this regard.

If the power's out, and we're operating on battery, it seems pretty critical to be able to see the state of the battery and the state of the solar, so we can adjust our power usage in real-time. If Comcast is down (likely), we're not going to see that info as things stand now.

Thoughts??

 

[jjrandorin]

I know how to do this on a powerwall 2 but havent seen anyone post about it for powerwall 3s. There has to be some way to monitor your system when there is no internet. On a powerwall 2 you connect to the wifi of the gateway, but that may not be relevant for a powerwall 3.

I would suggest calling Tesla energy support and asking them 877-961-7652.

In your testing, unless "pausing internet connectivity" is also dropping the powerwall from your wifi network, it may not be that good of a way to test. A device on your wifi that is requesting internet, but not getting it from your router, will generally simply continue to request internet from your router. Its entirely possible for your house to have wifi but your router to not have a connection (as I am sure you are aware).

You will probably want to test this by turning off your router while you test, so that you truly have no internet. Once you get instructions on how to connect directly, you can probably connect directly to the IP of the device you are supposed to connect to (pw 3 or gateway, whichever it is supposed to be) via your internal network and a web browser.

While you are testing, I would suggest turning off your router so that your powerwall really doesnt have any connection, not just "connected to wifi but cant get out".

 

[xWren]

There has to be some way to monitor your system when there is no internet.

Yes any decent engineer would design the system to be manageable without internet connection, especially a product designed to act as a backup power source during grid outages. But it sadly does not seem to be a part of Tesla's philosophy, they seem to presume that the internet and their servers will always be available. I will be really interested to know if there is a way to monitor and control PW3 without internet connectivity.

 

[jjrandorin]

Yes any decent engineer would design the system to be manageable without internet connection, especially a product designed to act as a backup power source during grid outages. But it sadly does not seem to be a part of Tesla's philosophy, they seem to presume that the internet and their servers will always be available. I will be really interested to know if there is a way to monitor and control PW3 without internet connectivity.

I dont believe I said "control" anywhere in my post. I said "monitor".

In general, when you are off grid, you want the system to power your house because thats what you bought it for. There are no reserve settings etc that are applicable when off grid on this system.

You need to be able to monitor it so you can make decisions on using power in your home, but there isnt a huge need to change anything on a powerwall system itself during a power outage.

I am specifically not addressing situations or people who want to use the system completely disconnected from Tesla at all times, as that never seemed to be in the scope of what Tesla was offering so is outside of any discussion about monitoring when off grid.

 

[jgleigh]

Probably want to checkout NetZero App (Netzero) or Powerwall Dashboard (GitHub - jasonacox/Powerwall-Dashboard: Grafana Monitoring Dashboard for Tesla Solar and Powerwall Systems). Both have put a bunch of effort into communicating with PW3 units.

The PW3 login credentials are unfortunately hidden behind the cover and not accessible except during installation.

 

[IsleDriver]

This afternoon I talked with Tesla Energy support (only a 45 minute wait...) She confirmed that with the PW2 there *used to be* a way (called the 'Wizard') to have backdoor access to the PW2 when the Internet is down. The Wizard is no more, even the PW2. On the PW3 there is nothing. So, yes, when the Internet is down, we're blind to how much battery we have, now much energy the house is using, and how much the solar is generating. Great design.

Note that my installer took a picture of the WIFI info when he last had the glass cover off. He .sent it to me, so I *can* access the PW's WIFI. But I couldn't figure out I could do with that local WIFI access. And for those with PW2 experience...the PW3 is different in that there isn't Gateway WIFI anymore...the local WIFI connection is on the PW...for whatever that's worth.

Is there a means to give Tesla Energy feedback?

I'll check out the Net Zero and Powerwall Dashboard that jgleigh suggested.

 

[jjrandorin]

This afternoon I talked with Tesla Energy support (only a 45 minute wait...) She confirmed that with the PW2 there *used to be* a way (called the 'Wizard') to have backdoor access to the PW2 when the Internet is down. The Wizard is no more, even the PW2. On the PW3 there is nothing. So, yes, when the Internet is down, we're blind to how much battery we have, now much energy the house is using, and how much the solar is generating. Great design.

Note that my installer took a picture of the WIFI info when he last had the glass cover off. He .sent it to me, so I *can* access the PW's WIFI. But I couldn't figure out I could do with that local WIFI access. And for those with PW2 experience...the PW3 is different in that there isn't Gateway WIFI anymore...the local WIFI connection is on the PW...for whatever that's worth.

Is there a means to give Tesla Energy feedback?

I'll check out the Net Zero and Powerwall Dashboard that jgleigh suggested.

I dont know what wizard they are talking about, but this still works for me on a powerwall 2.

I tried it just now, after reading your message here:

This is what local access to a system with a tesla gateway 1 and powerwall 2s looks like:

Perhaps you got an inexperienced agent or something. I would try calling back again to the number I mentioned tomorrow, or if you didnt call the number I mentioned make sure you are calling Tesla energy support and selecting powerwall in the voice prompts, not a generic Tesla number.

 

[IsleDriver]

I dont know what wizard they are talking about, but this still works for me on a powerwall 2.

I tried it just now, after reading your message here:

This is what local access to a system with a tesla gateway 1 and powerwall 2s looks like:

View attachment 1057952


Perhaps you got an inexperienced agent or something. I would try calling back again to the number I mentioned tomorrow, or if you didnt call the number I mentioned make sure you are calling Tesla energy support and selecting powerwall in the voice prompts, not a generic Tesla number.

Interesting. Once you connect to the Gateway's TEG WIFI, what are you doing to get that interface? Are you just going to 192.168.91.1?
For PW3 installs, there is no longer a "TEG..." WIFI from the Gateway. Instead, there is a "TeslaPW..." WIFI from the PW3.
As I do have the password for the TeslaPW... WIFI, I can connect. If I go to that IP address, I get a 404 not found error.

What about using the TeslaOne app? I just tried it and it does let me in with a "pedestrian" Tesla logon, and the QR code that is behind the glass. I can see various views including one something like the above which is truly real-time, and of course lots of options to configure stuff (which I most certainly don't want to do). I'd rather have what you have, but if I can't get that, I'm thinking to use TeslaOne for those disconnected times.

BTW, the agent I talked to seemed quite experienced and was for Powerwalls at the # you provided above (thanks for that!). She quickly knew what I was talking about. The "Wizard" was just their internal name (and I think it meant Wizard as used in 'of Oz' not Wizard as used in 'setup').

 

[jjrandorin]

Interesting. Once you connect to the Gateway's TEG WIFI, what are you doing to get that interface? Are you just going to 192.168.91.1?
For PW3 installs, there is no longer a "TEG..." WIFI from the Gateway. Instead, there is a "TeslaPW..." WIFI from the PW3.
As I do have the password for the TeslaPW... WIFI, I can connect. If I go to that IP address, I get a 404 not found error.

What about using the TeslaOne app? I just tried it and it does let me in with a "pedestrian" Tesla logon, and the QR code that is behind the glass. I can see various views including one something like the above which is truly real-time, and of course lots of options to configure stuff (which I most certainly don't want to do). I'd rather have what you have, but if I can't get that, I'm thinking to use TeslaOne for those disconnected times.

BTW, the agent I talked to seemed quite experienced and was for Powerwalls at the # you provided above (thanks for that!). She quickly knew what I was talking about. The "Wizard" was just their internal name (and I think it meant Wizard as used in 'of Oz' not Wizard as used in 'setup').

I am actually logging in at the IP of the tesla powerwall on my network, because when I connected it to my wifi, after it grabbed an IP I went into my router and reserved that IP for it so I would always know what it is.

Once I access its IP (I have to use safari on my mac not chrome, because it uses a self signed certificate and gives certificate errors), I log in as "customer" not "installer" and use the password I have from previously accessing it. I followed the instructions here a long time ago for first connecting to it and setting up wifi:

Connecting to Tesla Gateway and Powerwall+ | Tesla Support

If you lose internet or cellular connection, view instructions on how you can monitor your system’s power flow and charge level via web browser by connecting to your Gateway or Powerwall+.

www.tesla.com

I have PW 2 though, not 3.

 

[offandonagain]

PW3 does not have a web interface, and only allows access via 192.168.91.1. For offline access you have to use the Tesla One app or one of the options @jgleigh mentioned above.

 

[IsleDriver]

PW3 does not have a web interface, and only allows access via 192.168.91.1. For offline access you have to use the Tesla One app or one of the options @jgleigh mentioned above.

Are you suggesting that NetZero can access the PW3 offline? Based on @jgleigh suggestion, I loaded NetZero on my iPhone, logged in with normal Tesla username/password, and accessed the info. Then I went to the PW3 and connected to its WIFI and relaunched NetZero. NetZero couldn't connect to anything and eventually went back to the Tesla logon screen (which isn't useful w/o Internet access). Is there something I should be doing differently to use NetZero to get offline access?

I haven't tried the Powerwall Dashboard yet. Will that run on a iPhone/iPad, or do I need to run it on a Windows machine?

 

[jjrandorin]

Are you suggesting that NetZero can access the PW3 offline? Based on @jgleigh suggestion, I loaded NetZero on my iPhone, logged in with normal Tesla username/password, and accessed the info. Then I went to the PW3 and connected to its WIFI and relaunched NetZero. NetZero couldn't connect to anything and eventually went back to the Tesla logon screen (which isn't useful w/o Internet access). Is there something I should be doing differently to use NetZero to get offline access?

I haven't tried the Powerwall Dashboard yet. Will that run on a iPhone/iPad, or do I need to run it on a Windows machine?

Hopefully @offandonagain can direct you here, since they are the creator of the netzero app which is fantastic.

 

[furuike]

Are you suggesting that NetZero can access the PW3 offline? Based on @jgleigh suggestion, I loaded NetZero on my iPhone, logged in with normal Tesla username/password, and accessed the info. Then I went to the PW3 and connected to its WIFI and relaunched NetZero. NetZero couldn't connect to anything and eventually went back to the Tesla logon screen (which isn't useful w/o Internet access). Is there something I should be doing differently to use NetZero to get offline access?

I haven't tried the Powerwall Dashboard yet. Will that run on a iPhone/iPad, or do I need to run it on a Windows machine?

On PW2 s, NetZero can connect directly to your Powerwall if it is on your network. Even if your Internet is down, you will likely still have this level of connectivity.

Monitoring software for the PW3 is moving toward a combination of Tesla server data (not available if your PW loses Internet access) and the "tedapi" interface which is an interface exposed directly on the PW2 (and 3?) Wi-Fi portal. It's not a web server but it is the API that TeslaOne uses.

 

[jgleigh]

Are you suggesting that NetZero can access the PW3 offline? Based on @jgleigh suggestion, I loaded NetZero on my iPhone, logged in with normal Tesla username/password, and accessed the info. Then I went to the PW3 and connected to its WIFI and relaunched NetZero. NetZero couldn't connect to anything and eventually went back to the Tesla logon screen (which isn't useful w/o Internet access). Is there something I should be doing differently to use NetZero to get offline access?

I haven't tried the Powerwall Dashboard yet. Will that run on a iPhone/iPad, or do I need to run it on a Windows machine?

NetZero only uses the tedapi when scanning the QR-code. You have to either scan the real QR-code or create one on your own to scan with the existing PW3 credentials (pure JS WiFi QR Code Generator).

Logging into the PW3 through the WiFi just connects to the web interface which doesn't exist on the PW3.

 

[offandonagain]

Are you suggesting that NetZero can access the PW3 offline? Based on @jgleigh suggestion, I loaded NetZero on my iPhone, logged in with normal Tesla username/password, and accessed the info. Then I went to the PW3 and connected to its WIFI and relaunched NetZero. NetZero couldn't connect to anything and eventually went back to the Tesla logon screen (which isn't useful w/o Internet access). Is there something I should be doing differently to use NetZero to get offline access?

Sorry for the confusion, I forgot that I recently removed the QR scan option from Netzero for PW3 -- most users don't have access to the QR code behind the glass cover, so it was causing confusion. I'll restore that option and add a note about QR code access.

I haven't tried the Powerwall Dashboard yet. Will that run on a iPhone/iPad, or do I need to run it on a Windows machine?

You will need a Windows machine, Raspberry Pi, or similar always-on computer. If you have that, I would actually recommend this option -- they're also working on a way of accessing PW3 via your home network, without connecting to the TeslaPW wifi.

 

[Matt-FL]

Another option is to use a secondary internet connection. I am using a T-Mobile home internet device as a secondary WAN backup on my UI UDM-SE router. It costs me $25/month, and is connected as long as T-Mobile is active. While mine is always active 'unlimited', they did recently start offering a backup service for $20/month, which provides 130Gb/month, plenty for covering outages, as long as you don't watch Netflix in 4k

T-Mobile Helps ISP Customers Stay Connected During Outages with New Backup Plan - T-Mobile Newsroom

Cable home internet customers will now have a reliable way to stay connected when their service is down with the Un-carrier’s new Home Internet Backup plan

www.t-mobile.com

I got it for internet backup, as Xfinity had outages pretty regularly, and I work from home. However, it also keeps my internet up by automatically switching over when the power is out over 30 minutes and the Xfinity amplifier battery dies down the street. Now that I'm on fiber from another carrier (insert celebration sounds here), I've not had a single outage - even when power was out for over an hour earlier this month.

You mention you don't have good signal, but you can attach an external antenna to the T-Mobile home internet device, put it up on your roof or attic for the best possible signal.

 

[jgleigh]

You mention you don't have good signal, but you can attach an external antenna to the T-Mobile home internet device, put it up on your roof or attic for the best possible signal.

This is the way!

 

[LiBeRtAs]

I have a powerwall three also and I haven’t paired my phone to it yet with the Bluetooth because it says I have to turn the power off and back on to do that, but I will do it eventually would that allow the ability to use the app and change the Battery standby percentage or monitor, etc.?

 

[IsleDriver]

Another option is to use a secondary internet connection. I am using a T-Mobile home internet device as a secondary WAN backup on my UI UDM-SE router. It costs me $25/month, and is connected as long as T-Mobile is active. While mine is always active 'unlimited', they did recently start offering a backup service for $20/month, which provides 130Gb/month, plenty for covering outages, as long as you don't watch Netflix in 4k

T-Mobile Helps ISP Customers Stay Connected During Outages with New Backup Plan - T-Mobile Newsroom

Cable home internet customers will now have a reliable way to stay connected when their service is down with the Un-carrier’s new Home Internet Backup plan

www.t-mobile.com

I got it for internet backup, as Xfinity had outages pretty regularly, and I work from home. However, it also keeps my internet up by automatically switching over when the power is out over 30 minutes and the Xfinity amplifier battery dies down the street. Now that I'm on fiber from another carrier (insert celebration sounds here), I've not had a single outage - even when power was out for over an hour earlier this month.

You mention you don't have good signal, but you can attach an external antenna to the T-Mobile home internet device, put it up on your roof or attic for the best possible signal.

Excellent info, @Matt-FL ! Unfortunately for us, the only backup option in our rural area is Starlink. At our house, the only way our T-Mobile phones (or our ATT service in the Model Y) have access to the world is via our WIFI, connected to internet by Comcast..

 

[IsleDriver]

I have a powerwall three also and I haven’t paired my phone to it yet with the Bluetooth because it says I have to turn the power off and back on to do that, but I will do it eventually would that allow the ability to use the app and change the Battery standby percentage or monitor, etc.?

The Tesla instructions that you are referring to are bogus. I've tried and it doesn't do anything. BTW, flipping the toggle switch off/on on the PW3 doesn't have nearly the impact that you (or I) assumed.