Consumer Reports: Latest Autopilot “far less competent than a human”

[Camera-Cruiser]

This is very strict and enforced in Europe. No one passes on the right over there. Makes sense this way if there is an accident suddenly in front, people can pull to the right immediately without checking the right lane. Pulling to the left in an emergency situation isn't an option because one might end up facing the oncoming traffic.
But this rule works only if people respect the keep right rule. Left lane is for passing only.

I don’t quite get “people can pull over to the right immediately without checking” comment, but the rest I agree with. To my knowledge, the left most lanes are supposed to be used to pass, then move your car back over to the right lanes. Then the do not pass on the right law makes huge sense.

Unfortunately it seems that this concept is either not taught, not enforced, blatantly ignored, and the worse, are those who get on their high horse and say that they are doing the speed limit, and have the right to be there, which is wrong. Back in the oil crisis, groups of people would knowingly all drive 55 or less adjacent to each other on highways to somehow prove that they were morally superior and solve the oil crisis for all. I think that was the nadir for creating road rage.

The biggest problem I have with HOV lanes, other than all pay, few can use, is that, when in it, you can get stuck behind someone going the legal speed limit even though the rest of the highway to the right is moving faster. Since it has its own protected status, Those going the legal limit can just shrug and keep going while impeding others, so you get a mad dash to the right around the rolling roadblock both when there is a legal opening, but even more dangerous when there is not.

 

[CarlK]

Don't waste your time on @acoste. I have dealt with him for a long while on this forum. He's an European troll, probably has some relationships with one of those German automakers, and does not understand how freeways are like in the US.

 

[sixela]

Ad hominem: regardless of whether he's a troll and/or petrolhead, his statement about EU motorways is accurate: passing on the right is not only illegal over here but also really frowned upon, and even staying in the middle lane when there is no traffic on the right lane will get you fined in some countries.

Except in countries where you drive on the left side ;-).

NoA is very aware of that in e.g. the Netherlands: it's quite the right hand lane hogger and will first adjust speed with a middle lane hogger and then do two lane changes to the left (or at least attempt to).

 

[acoste]

Don't waste your time on @acoste. I have dealt with him for a long while on this forum. He's an European troll, probably has some relationships with one of those German automakers, and does not understand how freeways are like in the US.

Yep. 10+ years of driving on US highways but still don't get it.

I don’t quite get “people can pull over to the right immediately without checking” comment, but the rest I agree with. To my knowledge, the left most lanes are supposed to be used to pass, then move your car back over to the right lanes. Then the do not pass on the right law makes huge sense.

If they are in the right lane already then it's obvious.
If they are in the left lane they are aware if there is a car right next to them or slightly ahead and can decide if it's ok to quickly pull to the right.
If there is someone in the right blind spot, they supposed to be aware of it because left lane is for faster cars only which mean they just passed that car.
However if passing on the right is allowed. There might be cars in the blind spot unknown to the driver.

 

[gnuarm]

Yep. 10+ years of driving on US highways but still don't get it.



If they are in the right lane already then it's obvious.
If they are in the left lane they are aware if there is a car right next to them or slightly ahead and can decide if it's ok to quickly pull to the right.
If there is someone in the right blind spot, they supposed to be aware of it because left lane is for faster cars only which mean they just passed that car.
However if passing on the right is allowed. There might be cars in the blind spot unknown to the driver.

Not sure where you guys are driving, but around Washington, DC you really don't get much choice. If you want to go a bit faster, you drive in the left lane(s). If you are ok with going slower you drive in the right lane(s). The idea of moving back and forth between lanes simply adds hazards to driving. One reason to stay out of the right lane is because the fast drivers who try to dart around others will wait until the last moment before beelining to the right to take their exit. Don't be in their way.

When I am approaching a right exit I shift lanes two or three miles from the ramp. When approaching a left exit I get in the left lane at least three miles before the exit.

The navigate on autopilot is never happy no matter what. If I am in the left lane it wants out, even when a left exit I need to take is coming up. Stupid autopilot.

 

[CarlK]

Yep. 10+ years of driving on US highways but still don't get it.

If they are in the right lane already then it's obvious.
If they are in the left lane they are aware if there is a car right next to them or slightly ahead and can decide if it's ok to quickly pull to the right.
If there is someone in the right blind spot, they supposed to be aware of it because left lane is for faster cars only which mean they just passed that car.
However if passing on the right is allowed. There might be cars in the blind spot unknown to the driver.

Sounds like it. You definitely are the type of driver we don't want to see on US highways.

Ad hominem: regardless of whether he's a troll and/or petrolhead, his statement about EU motorways is accurate: passing on the right is not only illegal over here but also really frowned upon, and even staying in the middle lane when there is no traffic on the right lane will get you fined in some countries.

Except in countries where you drive on the left side ;-).

NoA is very aware of that in e.g. the Netherlands: it's quite the right hand lane hogger and will first adjust speed with a middle lane hogger and then do two lane changes to the left (or at least attempt to).

Was just pointing out the obvious hypocrisy. Agree that's how Europeans drive and have to think that's the way it should be. There are just too many "bad" drivers here in the US although I often hear the argument a good driver also drives like "normal" people do. You're not a good driver driving under the speed limit when everyone is driving 10~15 above it.

 

[gnuarm]

Ad hominem: regardless of whether he's a troll and/or petrolhead, his statement about EU motorways is accurate: passing on the right is not only illegal over here but also really frowned upon, and even staying in the middle lane when there is no traffic on the right lane will get you fined in some countries.

Except in countries where you drive on the left side ;-).

NoA is very aware of that in e.g. the Netherlands: it's quite the right hand lane hogger and will first adjust speed with a middle lane hogger and then do two lane changes to the left (or at least attempt to).

Are there no left exits in Europe?

 

[gnuarm]

I don’t quite get “people can pull over to the right immediately without checking” comment, but the rest I agree with. To my knowledge, the left most lanes are supposed to be used to pass, then move your car back over to the right lanes. Then the do not pass on the right law makes huge sense.

The trouble with that rule is that people don't necessarily maintain a constant speed. Plenty of times I'm on the cruise control and a car in the lane left of me slows a bit and I end up catching up to him/her/them. Is that my fault in Europe? Do I have a responsibility to not catch up to a car in the left lane even if I'm not speeding up?

Unfortunately it seems that this concept is either not taught, not enforced, blatantly ignored, and the worse, are those who get on their high horse and say that they are doing the speed limit, and have the right to be there, which is wrong. Back in the oil crisis, groups of people would knowingly all drive 55 or less adjacent to each other on highways to somehow prove that they were morally superior and solve the oil crisis for all. I think that was the nadir for creating road rage.

The biggest problem I have with HOV lanes, other than all pay, few can use, is that, when in it, you can get stuck behind someone going the legal speed limit even though the rest of the highway to the right is moving faster. Since it has its own protected status, Those going the legal limit can just shrug and keep going while impeding others, so you get a mad dash to the right around the rolling roadblock both when there is a legal opening, but even more dangerous when there is not.

I know what you mean, but sometimes I wonder if we all wouldn't be much better off just driving the speed limit. Everyone would be driving the same speed and I can't believe there wouldn't be a low fewer accidents, not to mention the end of road rage. No?

Once most or all cars are on full self driving that should be what we have. If Tesla insures your car, they may not allow you to speed when they are driving. Heck, State Farm wants to put a monitoring device in my car!

 

[sixela]

Left exits in Europe

Hardly any, no. These are marked clearly with a solid line divider a kilometer or so before the left exit (and usually a solid/dotted line a km before that, which prevent the left lane from switching lanes). You're not passing on the right once you are considered to drive on a "different road" because of the markings.

The only exception is an even rarer left entrance. These are usually announced because they are seen as dangerous, and often also marked with solid lines for quite some distance.

 

[sixela]

Plenty of times I'm on the cruise control and a car in the lane left of me slows a bit and I end up catching up to him/her/them. Is that my fault in Europe?

No; he's not supposed to decelerate while on the middle lane and in fact is in violation of the road code for staying on the middle lane. But if you're both at constant speeds you're still supposed to adjust to his speed first behind him and then pass to the left.

 

[Eno Deb]

I don’t quite get “people can pull over to the right immediately without checking” comment, but the rest I agree with. To my knowledge, the left most lanes are supposed to be used to pass, then move your car back over to the right lanes. Then the do not pass on the right law makes huge sense.

If you have ever driven on the German Autobahn you'll understand that strict passing rules are crucial for safety. Given the often large speed differentials, it would be complete chaos if passing on the right was allowed. The downside is that there is often road rage if someone wants to pass and the left lane is blocked by a slower car (then aggressive drivers sometimes start tailgating and angrily blinking or even flashing their highbeams).

BTW, I wonder how well NoA lane changes will work at Autobahn speeds, given that a slightly faster approaching cop car already created safety issues for the Consumer Report tester.

 

[tomas]

This thread has officially gone to hell.

 

[gnuarm]

Hardly any, no. These are marked clearly with a solid line divider a kilometer or so before the left exit (and usually a solid/dotted line a km before that, which prevent the left lane from switching lanes). You're not passing on the right once you are considered to drive on a "different road" because of the markings.

The only exception is an even rarer left entrance. These are usually announced because they are seen as dangerous, and often also marked with solid lines for quite some distance.

Yeah, the car is just not set up for the sort of visibility needed to enter from the left. That's one of the times the great acceleration of the Tesla comes in handy. There is one left hand entrance I used to encounter often and I never felt comfortable with it. The road is 70 MPH and of course people drive faster. If you have autobahn speed rules that could literally be deadly.

 

[gnuarm]

Ok, on topic post. I find the auto pilot to be ok, but not as good as a human. It makes far more mistakes than I do and if I didn't stop it I am pretty sure they would be much more serious mistakes often causing an accident... one car typically.

The navigate on autopilot is actually more of a PITA than it is useful. Mostly I use it because I figure they sample data and I am helping them to improve it. Don't know for sure if I am a drop in the bucket or totally ignored. But I figure it's a lot like voting in an election. My participation may make no difference at all, but there's always a chance it may be important.

 

[gnuarm]

No; he's not supposed to decelerate while on the middle lane and in fact is in violation of the road code for staying on the middle lane. But if you're both at constant speeds you're still supposed to adjust to his speed first behind him and then pass to the left.

I suspect this system can't be fully appreciated by someone who has not driven under it. It sounds a bit complex to me, but then what we have here is a real mess when congested. What happens to the system you describe when traffic is congested? I mean, what if the right lane is essentially full, so that once you pass in the middle lane, there is no space in the right lane into which to merge?

 

[sixela]

You're right: congestion does start earlier and on the left lane, while everyone curses the middle lane hogger to a special place in hell.

You are only supposed to merge back right when safe, and you are not forced to do so when you're planning to pass the next vehicle almost ‘immediately’.

 

[banned-66611]

WOW. That is definitely not my experience with NOA. Although, I have a Model 3 and I am in the US so that probably changes things.

Autopilot seems to be designed for California roads. It doesn't do well in other jurisdictions, especially the UK / Europe where the road markings and layouts are significantly different.

 

[CarlK]

Autopilot seems to be designed for California roads. It doesn't do well in other jurisdictions, especially the UK / Europe where the road markings and layouts are significantly different.

Perhaps it's because Tesla has more machine learning miles in Ca? UK/Europe people need to buy more Tesla and drive more.

 

[banned-66611]

Perhaps it's because Tesla has more machine learning miles in Ca? UK/Europe people need to buy more Tesla and drive more.

Maybe... But if it doesn't work properly here, why have they enabled it? I feel sorry for the other drivers near that erratic Tesla in the video.

Honestly if a cop saw that guy in the video he would have been pulled over and probably charged with dangerous driving.

 

[gnuarm]

Perhaps it's because Tesla has more machine learning miles in Ca? UK/Europe people need to buy more Tesla and drive more.

You forgot to mention the rest of the US... or is that just Eastern California?