Coronavirus pandemic drives up gun payments

[S4WRXTTCS]

I think the most important question is not the urge to own a gun in general, but what about this pandemic made a gun a priority? Something worth waiting in line for hours to get.

Where people who didn't own a gun suddenly took it upon themselves to do so.

I think part of it was simply the same irrationality that caused people to hoard TP. The need to feel in control, and a having a gun is a way to feel in control.

Some of it was perceived threat. Where there was the feeling of lack law enforcement, and prisoners being released early. Stories of prisoners being released early have been all of the news, and all you have to do is drive to discover a lack of law enforcement on the roadways. Thankfully around my area the cops started to clamp down because it was getting ridiculous.

Some of it was simply people who were on the fence, and this pandemic pushed them over.

I don't think the surge would have been as dramatic if people really did the math on what introducing a gun in your house brings.

Everything we buy has a cost associated with it that goes beyond the initial purchase price.

Guns have to be stored safely, and securely
Guns require knowledge and training to use properly.
Guns require a level of mental health fitness. If you or a loved one that lives with you suffers from any kind of suicidal tendencies or is prone to fatalism then a gun probably isn't a good idea.

I don't have anything against people who own a gun, but I strongly believe people who own a gun need to take responsibility for it. We don't need any more stories of kids getting their hands on the gun and it accidently going off killing someone.

If I was to buy a gun the actual purchase of a gun would be many steps down the road.

 

[MXLRplus]

I think the most important question is not the urge to own a gun in general, but what about this pandemic made a gun a priority? Something worth waiting in line for hours to get.

Where people who didn't own a gun suddenly took it upon themselves to do so.

I think part of it was simply the same irrationality that caused people to hoard TP. The need to feel in control, and a having a gun is a way to feel in control.

...

Gun sales always climb when the government starts to restrict sales. Just like clockwork. It's happened dozens of times in recent history. And it will happen again.

I don't know if you were alive during some the urban riots, but that will also happen again. And again. The 2020 DNC Convention could be a powder keg again this year. Heck we go on a rampage when a ball team wins a game.

 

[EVDRVN]

People don't need guns to protect them from the government they need them to protect them from corporations.

 

[daniel]

The problem with having a gun is the other guy probably has a bigger one. Especially if you plan to use it against the government. They have much bigger guns, lots of them, and people trained to use them. If I ever started thinking I wanted a gun, the first thing I'd do is have my head examined. I'm not saying you need to have your head examined if you have a gun (though a sanity test might be a good idea, both for gun owners and, as Pogo 'Possum once quipped, for presidents). I'm saying that it would not be safe for me or anybody around me if I had a gun. But if anybody wants to come down to the beach with me and have a water fight (at a safe 6+ feet, of course) I'm down for that. Water cannons at 20 feet. A few people at one of my canoe clubs have these bigass water cannons and you can douse the people in the other boat from pretty far away. That's a gun I'm okay with.

 

[SSedan]

The left has irrationally vilified guns. A gun is a tool, we have many many tools at our disposal capable of killing and inflicting harm when miss used. In places where guns are more restricted we see knives and vehicles used. Isn't it London where they have drop boxes for even large kitchen knives?

Many years ago someone close to me bought a gun and used it to take his life. My family has been touched by this but being rational I don't blame the gun, the store, the manufacturer. He had his demons and chose badly to abandon his family, that was his fault and in hindsight we think a vehicular incident earlier might have been a suicide attempt. There is always a way for people to do dumb and bad things.
Don't blame the tool.

Far as fighting the government, those saying we can't fight the military forget we are the military and the weapons manufacturing workers. That isn't some separate class. I don't know a single officer or soldier that would follow an order to take law abiding citizens guns. I know they exist but they would be the minority.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Gun sales always climb when the government starts to restrict sales

I'm sure that played a role, but it was a temporary restriction. Plus lots of states have continued to allow gun sales, and yet those states have seen a huge sales increase.

So I think it's mostly fear.

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-03-15/coronavirus-pandemic-gun-sales-surge-us-california

 

[tomas]

The problem with having a gun is the other guy probably has a bigger one. Especially if you plan to use it against the government. They have much bigger guns, lots of them, and people trained to use them. If I ever started thinking I wanted a gun, the first thing I'd do is have my head examined. I'm not saying you need to have your head examined if you have a gun (though a sanity test might be a good idea, both for gun owners and, as Pogo 'Possum once quipped, for presidents). I'm saying that it would not be safe for me or anybody around me if I had a gun. But if anybody wants to come down to the beach with me and have a water fight (at a safe 6+ feet, of course) I'm down for that. Water cannons at 20 feet. A few people at one of my canoe clubs have these bigass water cannons and you can douse the people in the other boat from pretty far away. That's a gun I'm okay with.

Pogo?!?!? Awesome!

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

The left has irrationally vilified guns.

I think the right has extremely overstated the position of the left.

The whole "they're trying to take our guns away" argument is used over, and over again to justify voting for Trump.

Where the reality is most people on the left simply want gun control to keep weapons out of the hands of people who have demonstrated the inability to act lawfully or to handle their anger. Like people who road rage or people who physically assault their spouse.

A gun can't be equated to other weapons because a gun is highly efficient. That's the utility a gun offers.

The problem with that is the utility it offers is far more necessary for where the majority of the right lives than the majority of the left. For the right it's a tool that serves a function. For the left it's everyday waking up to a news article about some mass shooting or accidental child shooting. While knowing that we'll likely never need a gun our entire lives because we live in freakin Suburbia.

The utility it offers doesn't do me much good except in possible extreme circumstances which likely will never happen. BUT, that same utility it offers can come at a huge cost if the gun gets stolen or if a child gets their hands on it. Or if for some reason I suddenly lose it in a fit of sudden irrational rage (I'm pretty average humanoid so I'm not prone to it, nor is it a zero possibility). For me the possible downsides outweighs the benefits it offers, but if I lived elsewhere then it might be the other way around. I do have a 4x4 camper van so owning a gun at some point in my life isn't completely out of the question despite my concern. Some of the places I want to go to aren't exactly known as being safe places.

Strong gun control isn't vilifying guns. It's simply knowing that guns shouldn't be in the hands of certain people, and that the vast majority of people don't need to have access to assault weapons.

Even strong gun control isn't going to keep guns out of people that shouldn't own one. I think we all know people who cant handle a gun, and some people know they themselves can't handle a gun. The concern about panic buying is the people are making a short term decision without realizing the long term consequences. It's not vilifying the gun. It's recognizing the change it makes. Just like buying a Motorcycle requires respecting what it brings to the table. Both the benefits, and the downsides.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

People don't need guns to protect them from the government they need them to protect them from corporations.

I might quickly change my tune on guns if Amazon Delivery drones become a thing.

They'll be such a nuisance that we're all going to have to shoot them down.

 

[mswlogo]

The government is becoming "bigger" as a result of the coronavirus. While it may be argued that this intervention from the government is needed to mitigate the effects of the coronavirus, many people are paranoid and suspicious of the government. This group of people may buy guns to protect themselves. Plus it kind of looks like "the end of the world" so better safe than sorry.

I think you have it backwards. It’s folks being afraid that government won’t be able to manage things that people are worried about. Yes, a portion of the existing gun owners don’t trust government. The virus has not changed that.

If 1 in 5 are unemployed (or more) crime will go up a lot. Drug use will go up a lot. Riots, looting, civil unrest could happen.

Also what is going to happen is the rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer out of this.

 

[EVDRVN]

I might quickly change my tune on guns if Amazon Delivery drones become a thing.

They'll be such a nuisance that we're all going to have to shoot them down.

I would like to see shotgun shells with a metal web packed inside.

 

[RichAZ/CapeCod]

The proliferation of gun is another type of uncontrolled proliferation. What do you thing is the urge to own a gun? ...

I retired as a police officer after 41 years of service (in two departments). Police are under no legal obligation to protect you. Really. In the chapter Firearms and the Home (Myths of Armed Self-Defense), in my book, Practical Handgun Training,

https://www.amazon.com/Practical-Ha...ctical+handgun+training&qid=1587308242&sr=8-2
I wrote:

The police are under no legal obligation to protect individuals

This is a difficult concept for most folks to accept, but it is fact. The United Stated Supreme Court has ruled that the police are under no constitutionally mandated duty to protect a person from harm.2 In that case a woman with a signed court-issued order of protection, lost her three children –they were murdered– by her estranged husband, yet the court found that the police were under no constitutional duty or obligation in the matter to protect her or her children (Castle Rock v. Gonzales).

There are some exceptions. One exists if there is a “special relationship” between the police and a person, or, if there is a state-created danger.3 None the less, there have been some disturbing incidents involving police (and fire department) failures to act, with no consequences to any of the responders involved. In one particularly grotesque case, both police and fire personnel simply watched a man commit suicide by drowning because the police and fire officers were in a budget dispute with their city.4 On Memorial Day, 2011, a suicidal man in San Francisco Bay stood in the water for an hour while onlookers begged the responding police and fire units to do something! When the man finally drowned it took a bystander to retrieve the body, as the fire personnel stated that their budget had not permitted them to have proper cold-water rescue training!

Fortunately, most responding police (and fire) officers don’t comport themselves as did the rather sad examples I mentioned above. None the less the reality is, for all practical purposes, your immediate personal safety is in your hands.

***​

So, the reality is, for your personal protection, in a very real sense, the obligation is on you to see to your own self-protection.

Rich

 

[daniel]

The left has irrationally vilified guns. A gun is a tool, we have many many tools at our disposal capable of killing and inflicting harm when miss used. In places where guns are more restricted we see knives and vehicles used. Isn't it London where they have drop boxes for even large kitchen knives?

Many years ago someone close to me bought a gun and used it to take his life. My family has been touched by this but being rational I don't blame the gun, the store, the manufacturer. He had his demons and chose badly to abandon his family, that was his fault and in hindsight we think a vehicular incident earlier might have been a suicide attempt. There is always a way for people to do dumb and bad things.
Don't blame the tool.

Far as fighting the government, those saying we can't fight the military forget we are the military and the weapons manufacturing workers. That isn't some separate class. I don't know a single officer or soldier that would follow an order to take law abiding citizens guns. I know they exist but they would be the minority.

The thing that some on the extreme far right of the pro-gun side refuse to acknowledge is that when a gun is your tool, it is much, much easier to kill someone than when a knife is your tool. Most gun owners are actually cognizant of this and are responsible with their guns. They understand that a gun is a very dangerous tool that must be kept locked up when not in use, and they support laws that regulate gun sales.

And most on the left are not trying to take everybody's guns away. They just want to, for example, close the gun-show loophole that allows people to bypass background checks when they buy guns at gun shows, and they want to address the problem that people can easily move large numbers of guns from easy-purchase states throughout the whole country.

The extremists create a straw man when they accuse "the left" of trying to "take their guns away." There is no major group or party in the U.S. that wants to take everybody's guns away. I've known a lot of gun owners. None of them believes the government is trying to take their guns away. And none of them thinks they could fight off the government. But the conspiracy theorists are very loud and spend a lot of time posting on the internet. And the nut jobs who really do believe all the nonsense see the present crisis as some kind of armageddon and are now buying more guns.

If the present crisis is what makes you want to have a gun, you probably shouldn't be allowed to buy one. It's the wrong reason. If you're a hunter or a target-shooter you probably got your gun a long time ago and keep it safely locked up when not in use. Again, when people are desperate, and cooped up inside, tempers flare. And when the pressure builds to the bursting point and somebody goes nutso and decides to kill his/her wife/husband, the intended victim is much more likely to survive if the would-be killer has a kitchen knife rather than a gun. Some tools are much more effective than others, and for killing a family member, a gun is much more effective than a knife.

Guns don't kill people: People with guns kill people.

 

[MXLRplus]

The thing that some on the extreme far right of the pro-gun side refuse to acknowledge is that when a gun is your tool, it is much, much easier to kill someone than when a knife is your tool. Most gun owners are actually cognizant of this and are responsible with their guns. They understand that a gun is a very dangerous tool that must be kept locked up when not in use, and they support laws that regulate gun sales.

And most on the left are not trying to take everybody's guns away. They just want to, for example, close the gun-show loophole that allows people to bypass background checks when they buy guns at gun shows, and they want to address the problem that people can easily move large numbers of guns from easy-purchase states throughout the whole country.

The extremists create a straw man when they accuse "the left" of trying to "take their guns away." There is no major group or party in the U.S. that wants to take everybody's guns away. I've known a lot of gun owners. None of them believes the government is trying to take their guns away. And none of them thinks they could fight off the government. But the conspiracy theorists are very loud and spend a lot of time posting on the internet. And the nut jobs who really do believe all the nonsense see the present crisis as some kind of armageddon and are now buying more guns.

If the present crisis is what makes you want to have a gun, you probably shouldn't be allowed to buy one. It's the wrong reason. If you're a hunter or a target-shooter you probably got your gun a long time ago and keep it safely locked up when not in use. Again, when people are desperate, and cooped up inside, tempers flare. And when the pressure builds to the bursting point and somebody goes nutso and decides to kill his/her wife/husband, the intended victim is much more likely to survive if the would-be killer has a kitchen knife rather than a gun. Some tools are much more effective than others, and for killing a family member, a gun is much more effective than a knife.

Guns don't kill people: People with guns kill people.

I'm not sure which United States you live in, nearly everything you posted is erroneous.

A $10 knife with proper training is 100% lethal. If somebody pulls a knife on you, you have to ask yourself, 'does this person know how to use that?' This is why the UK, other countries, and many US states have restrictions on knives. Hawaii has pretty loose knife restrictions, expect them to get more restrictive over time.

The problem with gun laws wasn't the law itself. It was the erosion. At first it was grenades, machineguns, short bbl shotguns (which still puzzles me). We were OK with that for years.

Today very few gun models are sold in our state (they must be approved using arbitrary guidelines and pay the government just to process the application with no guarantee), and ammunition is highly restricted. You personally cannot buy ammunition in California. The rich and government employees can bypass these rules.

During COVID, some cities outlaw gun store operations. Most gun stores are ultra small businesses (the SBA considers up to 1500 employees as small). Many are not going to recover.

California bans guns, it gets thrown out, they ban them another way, it gets thrown out, rinse and repeat. You believe they are not trying to ban guns here, I say you believe in imaginary concepts or propaganda. Or you are being deliberately deceptive to market your agenda like politicians do. It wasn't that long ago that politicians here publicly called out for a British style ban. ie - Only the rich and the gov't staff can have guns.

We wait at least 10 days to buy a firearm here. The background check in done in minutes. You need a special version of a driver's license for some transactions.

But my experience in 1970-2020 California is not going to change your opinion even a little. You sound like those who want a full ban you're just afraid to come out publicly with it because it makes you sound like you are against the BoR. Run for Congress.

BTW - I don't fully disagree with those who want a total ban. They should not be forced to own one.

 

[MXLRplus]

Just to give you all a head's up, they are emptying the prisons in California. Here this a pic taken 1h ago two miles from my house. This parking lot is normally filled to capacity with guards on Sunday.
This is happening all over the country.

 

[Scott7]

Where the reality is most people on the left simply want gun control

Correction: Most Americans period are in favor of expanded background checks and waiting periods. It’s not a left/right issue.

Neither of those present any sort of problem for someone who has a “legitimate” use, whether it’s hunting or personal protection.

Only a minority on the right (and their big dollar operations like the NRA) are against expanded background checks. Most people are somewhat rational and understand the purpose of testing before you can get a drivers license, even though unlike a gun, a car doesn’t have the primary purpose of killing things.

On a separate note, I would ask those claiming they need a gun for some desire of personal protection why this isn’t true for so many citizens of other first world countries around the world, even though who are very conservative. What’s special about America that that desire is so much stronger here?

 

[MXLRplus]

Correction: Most Americans period are in favor of expanded background checks and waiting periods. It’s not a left/right issue.

Neither of those present any sort of problem for someone who has a “legitimate” use, whether it’s hunting or personal protection.

Only a minority on the right (and their big dollar operations like the NRA) are against expanded background checks. Most people are somewhat rational and understand the purpose of testing before you can get a drivers license, even though unlike a gun, a car doesn’t have the primary purpose of killing things.

On a separate note, I would ask those claiming they need a gun for some desire of personal protection why this isn’t true for so many citizens of other first world countries around the world, even though who are very conservative. What’s special about America that that desire is so much stronger here?

I'm guessing that you aren't a current user of firearms?

I've never been arrested for anything. I have a DD214 and a secret clearance. I work with top secret projects. I've passed firearms safety courses, and have a hunting license.

Say you go into a sporting goods store in California. You'll find it's illegal to buy dove ammo for your shotgun. I want to buy my wife a 20ga for a present. Both are illegal.

Exactly what did you fix?
Be concise

If I could fix anything about deadly weapons in the US, I'd make it a felony to have an accident when your cellphone is in operation. No fault. If there is a collision, you are a felon.

 

[ddawson]

Today very few gun models are sold in our state (they must be approved using arbitrary guidelines and pay the government just to process the application with no guarantee), and ammunition is highly restricted. You personally cannot buy ammunition in California. The rich and government employees can bypass these rules.

Perfect example, I wanted a 380ACP. Kahr makes a CW380 MSRP $380. Not allowed in CA. I had to get the P380 MSRP $726.
Same for the Ruger LCP II, and any new generation Glock. The manufactures are not providing the new models to CA.

 

[MXLRplus]

Perfect example, I wanted a 380ACP. Kahr makes a CW380 MSRP $380. Not allowed in CA. I had to get the P380 MSRP $726.
Same for the Ruger LCP II, and any new generation Glock. The manufactures are not providing the new models to CA.

Ironically for all the screaming and gnashing of teeth about semi-auto rifles, California has made it cheaper to get a AR-15 clone than a pistol. An AR is cheaper today than it was when I was 18.

California is making us buy "KILLER ASSAULT RIFLES" by restricting sales of pistols and rifles. To err is human, but to really screw something up requires a California lawmaker.

 

[daniel]

I'm not sure which United States you live in, nearly everything you posted is erroneous.

I stand by everything I posted.

A $10 knife with proper training is 100% lethal. If somebody pulls a knife on you, you have to ask yourself, 'does this person know how to use that?'

Oh, come on. Get real! Sure, you can kill somebody with a knife. But it's an awful lot harder. And takes a lot of training, which very few people have. And when someone goes off the deep end and decides to murder a family member, gun owners are successful much more of the time than people who've got nothing worse than a kitchen knife.

You sound like those who want a full ban you're just afraid to come out publicly with it because it makes you sound like you are against the BoR. Run for Congress.

BoR? I don't know what that is. But your ad hominem argument does not impress me. Nor does your accusation that I'm not expressing my actual opinions. Nor does your straw man argument that people who want safeguards on gun purchases really just want to take away all your guns.

I know a lot of gun owners. They're all responsible, and they all agree with laws that make it harder to buy guns. (Caveat: I should have put that in the past tense: I knew a lot of gun owners, all responsible, where I used to live. Where I live now many fewer of my friends have guns. There's just not much hunting here as there was in other places I've lived.)