Could someone help me understand SGIP?

[cnwinger]

I was considering installing 2 or 3 Powerwalls in combination with a Solar roof. I have read that Tesla ran out of SGIP allocations and is no longer submitting them. I also read that SGIP funds we replenished in early 2020, not sure if that is the case? I also read that you could submit the request under the Large Scale bucket if I go with 3 Powerwalls, but I haven't seen anything that clearly defines the criteria for Residential vs. Large Scale.

I'm basically just super confused and want to figure our if there's any way to submit for the SGIP if I have 3 Powerwalls installed by Tesla. I could go with a 3rd party but the price difference makes it wash or slightly more after SGIP anyway.

Can anyone possibly clarify?

 

[jjrandorin]

I was considering installing 2 or 3 Powerwalls in combination with a Solar roof. I have read that Tesla ran out of SGIP allocations and is no longer submitting them. I also read that SGIP funds we replenished in early 2020, not sure if that is the case? I also read that you could submit the request under the Large Scale bucket if I go with 3 Powerwalls, but I haven't seen anything that clearly defines the criteria for Residential vs. Large Scale.

I'm basically just super confused and want to figure our if there's any way to submit for the SGIP if I have 3 Powerwalls installed by Tesla. I could go with a 3rd party but the price difference makes it wash or slightly more after SGIP anyway.

Can anyone possibly clarify?

Nope, its highly unlikely you would get any SGIP funds on any system installed by tesla as there is a waiting list of people who installed before you (that is, unless you are submitting under the equity and resiliency program which is basically for people in northern california who were affected by fires etc or have had multiple power shut offs from PGE.... with some other exceptions etc.

Plan on NOT receiving any SGIP from tesla for any system installed residentially. They have it priced as such as well, as you are finding out.

 

[SoundDaTrumpet]

I was considering installing 2 or 3 Powerwalls in combination with a Solar roof. I have read that Tesla ran out of SGIP allocations and is no longer submitting them. I also read that SGIP funds we replenished in early 2020, not sure if that is the case? I also read that you could submit the request under the Large Scale bucket if I go with 3 Powerwalls, but I haven't seen anything that clearly defines the criteria for Residential vs. Large Scale.

I'm basically just super confused and want to figure our if there's any way to submit for the SGIP if I have 3 Powerwalls installed by Tesla. I could go with a 3rd party but the price difference makes it wash or slightly more after SGIP anyway.

Can anyone possibly clarify?

@cnwinger There is a teleconference at 12PM today. It supposed to be more about the application process. Perhaps, large residential can be inferred/characterized by what is going to be covered on the call.

SGIP |

I am curious about the large residential because I am curious what potential incentives there are. Adding a 3rd is expensive. Installation of one PW seems to have tripled from when the first two were installed.

 

[cnwinger]

Nope, its highly unlikely you would get any SGIP funds on any system installed by tesla as there is a waiting list of people who installed before you (that is, unless you are submitting under the equity and resiliency program which is basically for people in northern california who were affected by fires etc or have had multiple power shut offs from PGE.... with some other exceptions etc.

Plan on NOT receiving any SGIP from tesla for any system installed residentially. They have it priced as such as well, as you are finding out.

I spoke with Tesla and they read me their SGIP eligibility requirements, and it specifically stated Residential SGIP was 1-2 Powerwalls, which is why I was asking if purchasing 3 pushed me into the Large Scale Tier where Tesla would not yet have run out. They didn't have a definite answer. It seems like it would?

@cnwinger There is a teleconference at 12PM today. It supposed to be more about the application process. Perhaps, large residential can be inferred/characterized by what is going to be covered on the call.

SGIP |

I am curious about the large residential because I am curious what potential incentives there are. Adding a 3rd is expensive. Installation of one PW seems to have tripled from when the first two were installed.

Thank you. However, The call was regarding software functionality and nothing regarding eligibility was covered.

 

[cnwinger]

"This tutorial will focus entirely on the software functionality of the database and no program eligibility topics
will be covered. If you have questions about eligibility requirements, please contact a Program Administrator. All phone numbers are listed at SGIP |"

I left a VM yesterday for the # under SCE in that link, but haven't heard back.

 

[Sonny85]

I am applying for Large Scale. I understand that Step 2 is open and I was eligible when I first installed 2 PW's back in 2018 when I would have been eligible for Step 1, but Tesla dropped the ball. Now I am getting a third powerwall and I will request a new PTO and I will be eligible for Large Scale. I'm showing a rebate of $11,745.00. That is $3915 rebate per PW2. My reservation is pending. The call showed you how to fill out the application. There is good reference material on the SGIP website.

 

[cnwinger]

I am applying for Large Scale. I understand that Step 2 is open and I was eligible when I first installed 2 PW's back in 2018 when I would have been eligible for Step 1, but Tesla dropped the ball. Now I am getting a third powerwall and I will request a new PTO and I will be eligible for Large Scale. I'm showing a rebate of $11,745.00. That is $3915 rebate per PW2. My reservation is pending. The call showed you how to fill out the application. There is good reference material on the SGIP website.

Ok, they must have covered that in the first 30 minutes when the link they had posted wasn't working. They changed the URL and by the time I joined it was nothing that cleared any of this up.

As far as Large Scale, the SGIP site states it's in Step 3:

Large-Scale Storage Step 3
Energy Storage** $0.35/Wh
Energy Storage + ITC** $0.25/Wh

How did you calculate the rebate for 3 powerwalls? You're submitting it yourself instead of through Tesla?

 

[cnwinger]

I think I get the calculation now? It uses the continuous power available, each Powerwall is 5kW continuous, so 2 is exactly 10 and under SGIP residential, and 3 would be 15kW and therefore Large Scale?

If that's the case, Tesla should be able to submit the Large Scale for me even if they ran out of Residential long ago. But they couldn't answer that question when I called them.

 

[RKCRLR]

I was told that sizing at 10.1 kW and above would require a load justification. Basically, you would need to review the last 12 months of your utility use data and show that your peak demand exceeded 10 kW.

From the 2020 SGIP Handbook:

5.2.4 System Size Parameters
System size requirements are applicable for systems that are rated above 10 kW. Systems that are rated at 10 kW or less are exempt from the sizing requirements.
Energy storage projects, whether paired or stand-alone, may be sized up to the Host Customer’s previous 12-month annual peak demand (kW). For new construction or projects with future load growth, projects can be sized up to future peak demand, but the load must be substantiated before the incentive can be paid. HVAC-integrated S-TES systems must be sized no larger than the tonnage of their accompanying HVAC unit and cannot be integrated with HVAC units greater than 20 tons. Refrigeration TES systems must be sized no larger than the tonnage of their accompanying refrigeration system(s).

 

[cnwinger]

I was told that sizing at 10.1 kW and above would require a load justification. Basically, you would need to review the last 12 months of your utility use data and show that your peak demand exceeded 10 kW.

From the 2020 SGIP Handbook:

5.2.4 System Size Parameters
System size requirements are applicable for systems that are rated above 10 kW. Systems that are rated at 10 kW or less are exempt from the sizing requirements.
Energy storage projects, whether paired or stand-alone, may be sized up to the Host Customer’s previous 12-month annual peak demand (kW). For new construction or projects with future load growth, projects can be sized up to future peak demand, but the load must be substantiated before the incentive can be paid. HVAC-integrated S-TES systems must be sized no larger than the tonnage of their accompanying HVAC unit and cannot be integrated with HVAC units greater than 20 tons. Refrigeration TES systems must be sized no larger than the tonnage of their accompanying refrigeration system(s).

How does this calculation work? If I pull my energy usage in 15-minute increments, do they look at one 15-minute increment, or the sum of 4 consecutive 15-minute increments to get a full hour?

 

[RKCRLR]

I don't know. The way it is worded one could argue that all it takes is one spike in a year would make you qualify, but I don't if that would actually get you the rebate. And one could game the system by purposely turning everything on at once for 15 minutes and show the peak.

 

[SoundDaTrumpet]

I am applying for Large Scale. I understand that Step 2 is open and I was eligible when I first installed 2 PW's back in 2018 when I would have been eligible for Step 1, but Tesla dropped the ball. Now I am getting a third powerwall and I will request a new PTO and I will be eligible for Large Scale. I'm showing a rebate of $11,745.00. That is $3915 rebate per PW2. My reservation is pending. The call showed you how to fill out the application. There is good reference material on the SGIP website.

@Sonny85 Laughing at myself for digging back into the application. Adding a 3rd Powerwall after getting SGIP for the first two puts me at Step 5 (assuming it wasn't filled... don't wanna get into that discussion of developer cap right now.) It is interesting how you COULD add a third PW and get into the large residential category in Step 2. The problem, which I am pointing, is that the equipment can't be operating for more than 12 months. Unless that requirement has gone away.

 

[SoundDaTrumpet]

I don't know. The way it is worded one could argue that all it takes is one spike in a year would make you qualify, but I don't if that would actually get you the rebate. And one could game the system by purposely turning everything on at once for 15 minutes and show the peak.

This is fairly simple, and probably w/o argument... charge a Model 3, turn on electric oven, and A/C. Another way is just do a load test with a clamp amp meter.

 

[Sonny85]

Ok, they must have covered that in the first 30 minutes when the link they had posted wasn't working. They changed the URL and by the time I joined it was nothing that cleared any of this up.

As far as Large Scale, the SGIP site states it's in Step 3:

Large-Scale Storage Step 3
Energy Storage** $0.35/Wh
Energy Storage + ITC** $0.25/Wh

How did you calculate the rebate for 3 powerwalls? You're submitting it yourself instead of through Tesla?

PG&E called me and explained that once I get a new PTO, the previous 2 PW's count in the new application as long as I didn't get the SGIP for those previous installed PW's. Tesla will not apply for the SGIP for you on Large Scale, even though they are step 2 eligible in PGE service area. I signed up as a homeowner/developer and received my key and applied. The system will now be 40.5 Kw, .29 cents a Wh , since I did get Tax credit. I have documentation of 16.9 Kw draw from my system so that should satisfy my load qualification.

 

[Sonny85]

@Sonny85 Laughing at myself for digging back into the application. Adding a 3rd Powerwall after getting SGIP for the first two puts me at Step 5 (assuming it wasn't filled... don't wanna get into that discussion of developer cap right now.) It is interesting how you COULD add a third PW and get into the large residential category in Step 2. The problem, which I am pointing, is that the equipment can't be operating for more than 12 months. Unless that requirement has gone away.

PGE called and explained that same information until I told him I was adding a 3rd PW. He said that would trigger a new PTO at the Large Scale rate and qualify me. It's worth a try,

 

[jjrandorin]

PG&E called me and explained that once I get a new PTO, the previous 2 PW's count in the new application as long as I didn't get the SGIP for those previous installed PW's. Tesla will not apply for the SGIP for you on Large Scale, even though they are step 2 eligible in PGE service area. I signed up as a homeowner/developer and received my key and applied. The system will now be 40.5 Kw, .29 cents a Wh , since I did get Tax credit. I have documentation of 16.9 Kw draw from my system so that should satisfy my load qualification.

I think the couple of key points in there that you mentioned are:

"Tesla will not apply for SGIP for you on Large Scale, even though they are on Step 2 eligible in PGE service area" and "I signed up as a homeowner / developer and received my key and applied".

when I looked at how that would work, it looked pretty involved (applying as your own developer / homeowner and processing it yourself). I know some people have done it, but its not like applying for a mail in rebate or something, lol.

I am sure it can be done, I remember reading about others doing it. Hope it all works out as you expect!

 

[RKCRLR]

^^^^
From reading through the posts, one of the harder parts is getting the technical information from Tesla. If Tesla would agree to provide that information to you it would make the job easier.

 

[SMAlset]

We’ll have the 24 panel solar installed and moved up our order from 2 PWs to 3 PWs. I’m unclear where that puts us in the SPIG program.

 

[SoundDaTrumpet]

We’ll have the 24 panel solar installed and moved up our order from 2 PWs to 3 PWs. I’m unclear where that puts us in the SPIG program.

That would put you into large residential. Step 2 in PG&E territories, and Step 3 in all others for California. Tesla website says you are on your own for the application. That puts folks in an odd place among commercial solar professionals. The large residential non-category has very little uptake looking at the real time reports dating back to 2016. There are key differences, but I haven’t had a chance to declare what the delta is.

 

[cnwinger]

Running my 1 of my 2 AC units continuously only puts me at about 1-1.5 kilowatt-hours for the 15 minute range. Not sure how I would even get to 15/15mins. I don't have an EV (yet).