Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

CPUC solar decision?

From: California NEM 3.0 Proposal: CPUC set to impose highest solar tax in the country
  • Allows Net Billing customers to “oversize” their systems by up to 150 percent of the customer’s historical load to allow for future vehicle and appliance electrification.
  • Requires Net Billing customers to take service on rates with high differentials between peak and off-peak prices on order to incent energy conservation or the use of stored solar energy during the net peak window of 6 p.m. to 9 p.m.
  • Adopts a monthly residential Grid Participation Charge of $8 per kilowatt (kW) of installed solar (some low-income and tribal households, will get an exemption from the Grid Participation Charge.)
  • Creates a four-year glide path for the industry through a monthly Market Transition Credit of up to $5.25 per kW for residential solar plus storage and solar-only systems. Customers will lock this amount in for 10 years. During the four-year glide path, the credit will step down 25 percent a year for prospective customers, who will also lock in their amount for 10 years.
  • Establishes a Storage Evolution Fund to provide storage rebates to existing NEM 2.0 customers who transition to the Net Billing Tariff within the next four years, so that they can add storage systems to their homes to support the grid and become more resilient to wildfires and natural disasters.
  • Transitions residential NEM 1.0 and 2.0 customers (except for low-income customers) to the Net Billing Tariff after 15 years of being interconnected to the electric grid
 
  • Like
Reactions: KHYE
Yea, it seems like they want to penalize people who oversize their systems. Just curious, the size is based the size of your inverters instead of the size of your solar panels? In the NEM contract, the name plate system rating is based on inverter size, not size of your total panels.

I oversized my system as well after getting some feedbacks from the group. Now wondering if I should change it.
 

h2ofun

Active Member
Aug 11, 2020
4,132
1,073
auburn, ca
Yea, it seems like they want to penalize people who oversize their systems. Just curious, the size is based the size of your inverters instead of the size of your solar panels? In the NEM contract, the name plate system rating is based on inverter size, not size of your total panels.

I oversized my system as well after getting some feedbacks from the group. Now wondering if I should change it.
Another great question. I have about 30K of panels, and 22.4kw of 2 11.4 inverter. Either way, no way would I have ever done any solar based on these numbers. Will kill my house resale. I could not find anything about is the true up still 12 months for old folks? Sounds like new might be monthly? And I could find no where about the rate. Is it residential or wholesale? Bottom line this passes and solar and batteries, IMO, are dead
 

TheTalkingMule

Distributed Energy Enthusiast
Oct 20, 2012
10,178
52,046
Philadelphia, PA
Elon's gonna rip this apart, what a joke. Any time we see this kind of nonsense, the market responds with great force. I assume this will dramatically slow installs in CA in the short term and drive folks off the grid entirely. By 2024 storage will be cheap enough you'd have to be insane to pay $8/kW every month for the right to serve up supply at near peak demand. Everyone will just island themselves and create the least efficient version of the grid.

We officially can't do anything in this country. In Texas you get to freeze to death if there's any winter weather. In California you have to pay a fee for the privilege of getting underpaid for the exact thing they're supposedly encouraging. Lol!
 

h2ofun

Active Member
Aug 11, 2020
4,132
1,073
auburn, ca
Elon's gonna rip this apart, what a joke. Any time we see this kind of nonsense, the market responds with great force. I assume this will dramatically slow installs in CA in the short term and drive folks off the grid entirely. By 2024 storage will be cheap enough you'd have to be insane to pay $8/kW every month for the right to serve up supply at near peak demand. Everyone will just island themselves and create the least efficient version of the grid.

We officially can't do anything in this country. In Texas you get to freeze to death if there's any winter weather. In California you have to pay a fee for the privilege of getting underpaid for the exact thing they're supposedly encouraging. Lol!
how could you island one self? We are forced to be on the grid. I would look at taking my solar off
 

h2ofun

Active Member
Aug 11, 2020
4,132
1,073
auburn, ca
So, could not find answers in the PDF. So, for folks on NEM2:

What do we get to keep for 15 years? 12 month true ups? Send back at residential rates, no wholesale? No 8 bucks per months?
what if anything changes for NEM2 folks? NEM1 folks?

So for NEM3 folks, and this new PC name is nuts, starting like May 2022, what are they? Monthly true ups? What rates? 8 bucks per kw panels or inverter?

Again, I would never ever have spent the money I have if these were the rules
 
If I am reading it correctly. It sounds like existing NEM 2.0 users keep their 20 year grandfathered period, but people who join NEM 2.0 between when the proposal is adopted (later half of Jan 2022?) and when NEM 2.0 sunsets (120 days after adoption - later half of May 2022) only get 15 years. Other than that there does not seem to be any changes to NEM 2.0.

If you install your system after that you are initially put on NEM 2.0 but then get transitioned to this new plan whenever the utilities get their act together to implement it.
 

h2ofun

Active Member
Aug 11, 2020
4,132
1,073
auburn, ca
If I am reading it correctly. It sounds like existing NEM 2.0 users keep their 20 year grandfathered period, but people who join NEM 2.0 between when the proposal is adopted (later half of Jan 2022?) and when NEM 2.0 sunsets (120 days after adoption - later half of May 2022) only get 15 years. Other than that there does not seem to be any changes to NEM 2.0.

If you install your system after that you are initially put on NEM 2.0 but then get transitioned to this new plan whenever the utilities get their act together to implement it.
I hope you are right, just not real clear still. And still even is 2- years, to add 8 bucks per KW is a show stopper
 
I hope you are right, just not real clear still. And still even is 2- years, to add 8 bucks per KW is a show stopper
Agreed. I actually get the lower reimbursement for sending power back to the grid, but a flat charge based on your kW installed is beyond insane. It would be like charging a customer more money if they use less electricity than the utility thought you should be using. All those people conserving energy aren't paying their fair share for the grid costs /sarcasm.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sandor and nwdiver

h2ofun

Active Member
Aug 11, 2020
4,132
1,073
auburn, ca
Agreed. I actually get the lower reimbursement for sending power back to the grid, but a flat charge based on your kW installed is beyond insane. It would be like charging a customer more money if they use less electricity than the utility thought you should be using. All those people conserving energy aren't paying their fair share for the grid costs /sarcasm.
I am screwed
 

nwdiver

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2013
9,183
13,948
United States
Agreed. I actually get the lower reimbursement for sending power back to the grid, but a flat charge based on your kW installed is beyond insane. It would be like charging a customer more money if they use less electricity than the utility thought you should be using. All those people conserving energy aren't paying their fair share for the grid costs /sarcasm.

Capacity fees are just idiotic. And I have ~5kW of PV that just charge a battery... not grid tied. Would I need to pay $40/mo for that? What about someone with solar thermal and resistance backup? Should they pay $8/kW of thermal panels? Why not? How would that be different than PV? Capacity fees are just lazy and idiotic.
 
  • Like
Reactions: yblaser
See CPUC latest proposal here: CPUC Proposal Aims To Modernize State’s Decarbonization Incentive Efforts

Their wording is a joke. They aim to "modernize state decarbonization efforts" by killing any financial incentive to have solar.

The CPUC is proposing a monthly fee of $8 per each 1 KWH of systems size each month if you have solar.

My questions:

My system: 15.44kwh & 3 PowerWalls yet to receive PTO from PGE.

1) Could our system be smart enough not send excess energy to the grid?
2) Do we need PTO from PGE if the system can work just internally and never send energy to grid?
3) If it came down to it, can we cancel PGE electrical service (but keep the gas)?
 

nwdiver

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2013
9,183
13,948
United States
The CPUC is proposing a monthly fee of $8 per each 1 KWH of systems size each month if you have solar.

Sorry to be pedantic but it's per kW. Per unit of installed solar capacity (kW). NOT per unit of energy produced (kWh).

... which actually highlights another absurdity to capacity fees. West facing panels are better because they better match demand but produce ~30% fewer kWh(ENERGY) per kW(POWER) of solar. But E or W facing solar is levied the same tax per kW(POWER) even while producing fewer kWh(ENERGY)????
 
  • Like
Reactions: ItsNotAboutTheMoney

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top