Crunch! Falcon Wing Doors fail to sense obstacle

[KayT]

If the Chairman of the Board states that (quote) "I'm not sure anyone should have made this car;" Houston, we have a problem!

As I had feared, at first sight, the falcon-wing door concept is a no-go on many levels. Sensors unable to detect objects at all angles is an unacceptable design failure. Owners should not be subjected to measuring the exact angle of supporting beams in underground parking lots etc. before determining whether or not to open the rear door of the car!.

(Bearing in mind that for a Model S collision, parts from Fremont can take up to three months to materialize - I dread to think what the lead time for Model X rear door assembly is.)

Moreover, roof / ski/snowboard racks - forget it! Leave half the family at home and use the capacious rear of the vehicle for transportation of, I suppose. So glad that I talked a friend into the Model S instead.

'Falcon' should perhaps be re-named 'albatross.'

 

[ohmman]

As I had feared, at first sight, the falcon-wing door concept is a no-go on many levels. Sensors unable to detect objects at all angles is an unacceptable design failure. Owners should not be subjected to measuring the exact angle of supporting beams in underground parking lots etc. before determining whether or not to open the rear door of the car!.

As someone who has been a clear skeptic and critic of the falcon wing doors, I have to say you're painting with a pretty broad brush here. I'm pretty confident the "blind spot" issue is going to be corrected. It's definitely doable. There are other challenges worth consideration, but I don't think this is the one that's going to be an issue preventing adoption in the long run.

 

[KayT]

As someone who has been a clear skeptic and critic of the falcon wing doors, I have to say you're painting with a pretty broad brush here. I'm pretty confident the "blind spot" issue is going to be corrected. It's definitely doable. There are other challenges worth consideration, but I don't think this is the one that's going to be an issue preventing adoption in the long run.

Doable, yes - but take into account retro-fit with additional sensor placements and rewiring. It could wind up as a recall situation. Nightmare for local service centers - if they can even accomplish onsite. (Not surprised that Guillen is still on 'leave of absence' - think he saw it coming.) Hopefully, the issue can be addressed before too many more vehicles are delivered, although delivery would be placed on hold - yet again - for the correction.

 

[systemcrashed]

Doable, yes - but take into account retro-fit with additional sensor placements and rewiring. It could wind up as a recall situation. Nightmare for local service centers - if they can even accomplish onsite. (Not surprised that Guillen is still on 'leave of absence' - think he saw it coming.) Hopefully, the issue can be addressed before too many more vehicles are delivered, although delivery would be placed on hold - yet again - for the correction.

It is highly unlikely that Tesla will be adding any additional sensors to the current build, this would be a nightmare for sure... It has been hard enough for Tesla to finally get a properly assembled X off the line, now we will expect the SC to accomplish a tear down and reassemble with new panels/sensors? What might be feasible is to develop a new roof mounted sensor with higher sensitivity and broader field of view.

 

[K-MTG]

As someone who has been a clear skeptic and critic of the falcon wing doors, I have to say you're painting with a pretty broad brush here. I'm pretty confident the "blind spot" issue is going to be corrected. It's definitely doable. There are other challenges worth consideration, but I don't think this is the one that's going to be an issue preventing adoption in the long run.

But will it be corrected on the current X? Or will new owners in a year or so enjoy the perks of not hitting their wings

 

[Mark Z]

When I show newly interested people who flock over to the Model X in the parking lot how one of the falcon wing doors requires about six red button presses to close, they soon depart. (Seeing my arm appearing to get close to getting squeezed by the wing does bother people.)

Defects can have their advantages!

 

[Tslacg]

Leave the FWDs on the MX, make an electric minivan with minivan doors. This is a 7seater crossover SUV not a grocery getter. If the design doesn't fit a persons lifestyle they shouldn't try to force it. The MX is attractive to people bc of its technology, it obviously cannot fulfill the role of two entirely different automobile classes perfectly.

The MX is a fantastic vehicle, and there are several parts about it that are out of this world.
That being said, I'm not someone that screams HEY LOOK AT ME LOOK AT ME at every opportunity, if ever. Unfortunately there's no getting around this with the FWD. Give me this car with everything else, or even the ability to turn off the FWD when in public and I'd put an order in immediately. Until then, I'll stick to my jeans, grey tshirt and quiet lifestyle. Someone else can have the yellow polka dot shirt and plaid pants walking around with a siren.

Add subtle doors and IMO you'll have orders flooding in.

 

[hill]

The MX is a fantastic vehicle, and there are several parts about it that are out of this world.
That being said, I'm not someone that screams HEY LOOK AT ME LOOK AT ME at every opportunity, if ever. Unfortunately there's no getting around this with the FWD........snip.......

depends on where you live. FWD's and other 'exotics' are way more ubiquitous in south O.C. SoCal for example ... just as jacked up rolling coal is more ubiquitous in - say, Oklahoma

Just saying maybe it just turns on where you are.
.

 

[N5329K]

Cars have always been "look at me" fashion (or antifashion) statements. Back when nobody in their right mind would prefer a loud, dirty, unreliable gasoline car over a simple, quiet electric, ICE vehicles were described as the favorites of foolish young men who wanted to terrorize cows and draw admiring looks from milkmaids.
Turns out that worked.
So it's no big surprise that "look at me!" is still a big sales factor, whether it's falcon wing doors, huge spoilers or monster trucks.
For myself, I prefer simple designs that just work, and keep on working, over fashion statements. But no car company will survive on buyers like me.
Robin

 

[Blastphemy]

I'm still waiting for the first report of a FWD coming down on some elderly person's head, causing a severe injury. Hopefully I'll be waiting and waiting and waiting... but since there are no sensors coming down, I sadly think it's inevitable.

When Tesla made these doors automatic, closing and opening at the touch of a button, it pretty much assured that future damage and injury would occur. Since reading this thread, I've been extra careful, and still my father almost got clobbered when my front passenger accidentally pressed the FWD close icon on the screen instead of the front passenger door close icon.

And I also can't control how well other people are paying attention, so I nearly decapitated a bicyclist the other day who probably never expected to see an SUV door open into umbrella mode right in front of him. In that instance, if the door was manual and the person was paying attention, you'd just quickly pull the door back until the bicyclist rode by (like we all know to do in NYC with all the messengers and food delivery cyclists); but when a door is opening automatically and one is relying on the door to stop when it should, it's a whole different ball game.

So the expected response is "look first, then open." But for that bicyclist, we did look, and he wasn't there. The guy was riding at such a fast clip that he wasn't in our field of vision until the door was half open. So I'm standing with the keyfob in my hand, trying to react fast enough to press the FWD button to stop it, but that just made it worse because all that did was put a permanent obstacle in front of the cyclist, and my passenger who was in the process of exiting nearly hit his head when it stopped because he obviously wasn't expecting it to stop. A perfect storm, but I suspect a storm that may have lightning strike more than once, unfortunately.

 

[vandacca]

...
And I also can't control how well other people are paying attention, so I nearly decapitated a bicyclist the other day who probably never expected to see an SUV door open into umbrella mode right in front of him. In that instance, if the door was manual and the person was paying attention, you'd just quickly pull the door back until the bicyclist rode by (like we all know to do in NYC with all the messengers and food delivery cyclists); but when a door is opening automatically and one is relying on the door to stop when it should, it's a whole different ball game.
...

Oh no! "...nearly decapitated a bicyclist..." Someone predicted this over a year ago...

 

[Drivin]

I'm still waiting for the first report of a FWD coming down on some elderly person's head, causing a severe injury. Hopefully I'll be waiting and waiting and waiting... but since there are no sensors coming down, I sadly think it's inevitable.

That sounds more like a plot device for a TV show. Find that the perpetrator hacked the system and decapitated granny not for the inheritance (since she already had a will leaving the money to her 10 cats), but rather because he wanted a job as a safety inspector in the auto industry.

 

[ohmman]

Oh no! "...nearly decapitated a bicyclist..." Someone predicted this over a year ago...

Now where are those diagrams again..?

 

[xkwizit]

I'm still waiting for the first report of a FWD coming down on some elderly person's head, causing a severe injury. Hopefully I'll be waiting and waiting and waiting... but since there are no sensors coming down, I sadly think it's inevitable.

When Tesla made these doors automatic, closing and opening at the touch of a button, it pretty much assured that future damage and injury would occur. Since reading this thread, I've been extra careful, and still my father almost got clobbered when my front passenger accidentally pressed the FWD close icon on the screen instead of the front passenger door close icon.

And I also can't control how well other people are paying attention, so I nearly decapitated a bicyclist the other day who probably never expected to see an SUV door open into umbrella mode right in front of him. In that instance, if the door was manual and the person was paying attention, you'd just quickly pull the door back until the bicyclist rode by (like we all know to do in NYC with all the messengers and food delivery cyclists); but when a door is opening automatically and one is relying on the door to stop when it should, it's a whole different ball game.

So the expected response is "look first, then open." But for that bicyclist, we did look, and he wasn't there. The guy was riding at such a fast clip that he wasn't in our field of vision until the door was half open. So I'm standing with the keyfob in my hand, trying to react fast enough to press the FWD button to stop it, but that just made it worse because all that did was put a permanent obstacle in front of the cyclist, and my passenger who was in the process of exiting nearly hit his head when it stopped because he obviously wasn't expecting it to stop. A perfect storm, but I suspect a storm that may have lightning strike more than once, unfortunately.

Actually more dangerous than the FWDs are summon and autonomous cars..well let's say cars or any vehicle that is not powered by a human. Well to think about that even bikes hit and injure humans..so cross human powered too off from the safe list. Let's go back to Stone Age.

 

[Saghost]

Actually more dangerous than the FWDs are summon and autonomous cars..well let's say cars or any vehicle that is not powered by a human. Well to think about that even bikes hit and injure humans..so cross human powered too off from the safe list. Let's go back to Stone Age.

Dedicated bike lanes in the sidewalk well clear of cars like in Amsterdam seem like a much cheaper solution than going back to the stone age...

 

[Electrifying]

Oh no! "...nearly decapitated a bicyclist..." Someone predicted this over a year ago...

Dedicated bike lanes in the sidewalk well clear of cars like in Amsterdam seem like a much cheaper solution than going back to the stone age...

If some bicyclist did get decapitated, I'd say he'd just win the Darwin award. You don't peddle top speed when a stopped SUV is beeping and spreading its wings. Road etiquette applies both ways.

 

[Blastphemy]

In our case, no one was at fault. The cyclist was wearing earbuds, so he didn't hear the door beeping (and frankly I never notice it beeping either even when I'm the one opening it, so even without earbuds he probably wouldn't have heard it). The cyclist wasn't going an unreasonable speed, and he was riding in a bike lane that we were parked next to (legally!) Our door encroached on the bike lane, but there was still enough space for the cyclist to swerve at the last moment when he finally noticed what was in front of him.

You might think it's really obvious to everyone that our car parked next to the bike lane is a Tesla Model X, and also know that its passenger doors open outward and up; but there's not a lot of people dialed in to such things, and it's quite unreasonable to blame the cyclist for encountering the unexpected future while he's just trying to get some exercise riding on an early 19th century invention.

 

[loganintx]

Wouldn't a FWD encroach less into the bike lane than a standard door like the front door?

 

[goneskiian]

As an avid cyclist, being "doored" is one of my worst fears. With that said, I never wear earbuds and I am extra ultra vigilant when riding along a row of street parked cars.

I am not worried about these doors although I'm sure there will be some bike/FWD encounters and they could be pretty ugly seeing how the trailing edge of the FWD, and particularly the corner furthest out (both front and rear) is kinda pointy like. Also, cyclists won't be used to these doors for a very long time considering how few X's there are (and will be for a while) out and about.

Hopefully everyone will be as conscientious as they should be anyway and they look extra long and hard when opening a door into traffic.

Cheers!

 

[goneskiian]

Wouldn't a FWD encroach less into the bike lane than a standard door like the front door?

When fully open, yes. When in the process of opening, they would be if we could tell them to open like they were parked 6 inches away from another vehicle. But with nothing there, they will swing pretty wide in the arc to fully open.