If the CT, with the same shape and size, but blew away the range of the F150L or Rivian (all about the same range towing or standard) or met the lower pre-launch, they would have been a massive industry disruptor. There's a reason why there were so many pre-orders.
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Cybertruck is a scam.
- Thread starter Zybane
- Start date
The CT, Rivian and Lightning have Batteries equivalent to close to a 4 gallon tank.
For me again, charging a huge battery while not saving much over a gas counterpart isn’t worth it.
Faster charging is needed. I think Tesla will figure it out but it’s disappointing that’s after 4 years we essentially got nothing.
For me again, charging a huge battery while not saving much over a gas counterpart isn’t worth it.
Faster charging is needed. I think Tesla will figure it out but it’s disappointing that’s after 4 years we essentially got nothing.
Yep. My 2018 RAM 1500 has the optional 33 gallon tank, the standard tank is 26 gallons. On the highway without towing I can go 600 miles without refueling. Towing it's about 250-350 miles depending on what we're towing. I believe the F150s have optional tanks up to 36 gallons in size in comparison. If you step up to the RAM 2500 diesel - the standard diesel tank is 31 gallons, the optional tank is 50 gallons (screenshot below directly from the RAM website). If you're towing long distance and getting 10mpg - that's 500 miles. Many people who routinely tow long distances (like my uncle) also add a bed mounted secondary tank that holds another 50-100 gallons - so they can literally go well over 1000 miles without refueling. My aunt and uncle would come cross country (Colorado to Maryland) a couple times a year, towing their 38 foot gooseneck camper. They'd simply pull off to the side of the road and use the bathroom in the camper - then right back on the road - same with sleeping - they'd find a place to pull off and simply sleep in the camper.
BEV pickups aren't anywhere close to these types of use cases in comparison, which is why I always say to anyone who asks me about heavy towing/hauling - keep your ICE vehicles for these use cases.
Skotty
2014 S P85 | 2023 F-150L
There's a distinction to be aware of though. Not good enough vs. okay, yeah, that will do. For long range towing, the F-150 Lightning or Rivian are in the NOT good enough category. But I think the Silverado is in the good enough category. It's still not as good as gas, but it's usable, and I think that's important. A gas truck will still be best for long range towing, but I would be willing to tow with a Silverado, whereas I would not with my F-150 Lightning. I still went with the F-150 Lightning, but only because I have no intention of towing anything long range with it; I will only ever tow around town.
That's a bit misleading.
Yes, the energy content is similar but the difference is that an ICE is about 35% efficiency where-as EV's are about 85% efficiency. The result of this is that the driving range of the EV Truck, even with only 4 gallons worth of energy, can make that energy go about as far as 10 gallons would in an ICE. EV's also have the advantage of not needing to leave a 'few gallons' in the tank so as not to run it dry and suck air. I mean with an ICE when we get down to 4 gallons we are nervously looking for a gas station whereas an EV can use every last electron and 50 miles of range left generally means you can actually drive 50 more miles.
That said, EV Trucks still don't make any sense! Hybrids do.
EV Trucks make sense as Sports Trucks and that's how they should be marketed.
FastEddieB
Member
And, providing my own counter argument, we paid $2k for red paint for our M3LR. Not exactly a functional improvement.
Agreed. I think we'll see the F200 platform introduce a larger battery pack for Ford next year - similar to what the RAM REV will deliver - a mid-range pack with roughly 350 miles (this will replace the existing F150L) and a long range pack for up to 500 miles. GM is doing the same thing - think 3WT/4WT. Then there's the RAMCharger which for those who routinely tow longer distances may be a no-brainer - basically the ultimate PHEV (up to 700 miles of range).
It's not just long distance towing it is also what you are towing and where you are towing to.
based on this thread, apparently 98% of truck users haul 7000# objects around for at least 1000 miles a stint on a routine and regular basis.
All of a sudden Towing isn't important. But Prior to November 2023 the Cybertruck was going to "disrupt" the industry with its towing range........
well, as long as you recognize most people don't care the least bit about a corner case like towing 7000# collection of crap on wheels across America without ever having to pull into a gas station, nor having to pee even on the side of the road (the horrors!) because their 7000# rig is fully self contained for pooping and eating in, and, and, and.
so the truth is (big reveal!) is that CT will have to charge when towing. maybe even a lot.
the other truth is, the extreme majority of truck owners have never hauled a thing, nor hauled a thing across country, nor even hauled a thing across the state, or if in CA where the counties are huge, I bet not even across the county.
so this excessive citing of extreme corner cases is convincing no one of anything.
so the truth is (big reveal!) is that CT will have to charge when towing. maybe even a lot.
the other truth is, the extreme majority of truck owners have never hauled a thing, nor hauled a thing across country, nor even hauled a thing across the state, or if in CA where the counties are huge, I bet not even across the county.
so this excessive citing of extreme corner cases is convincing no one of anything.
Everyone went off of the specs. that Tesla and Musk said the Truck would get.
www.torquenews.com
How Much Can the Cybertruck Tow? And What Range Will Be Lost?
We see some information about the Cybertruck's towing and range yielding some impressive numbers.
www.torquenews.com
And the other truth is Tesla Cybertruck Fans were claiming victory over the competition saying their towing ranges were pathetic and their the Cybertruck would be a “towing monster” “disrupt the truck industry” and be able to travel miles upon miles while other EV offerings would be stuck charging…..
Can you just admit the Cybertruck is a mid pack car that the only thing is has going for it is the attention grabbing exterior?
Tesla has the same batteries as everyone else. They do build light vehicles which helps but in the real world the size of the battery pack is most of what determines your range.
Once you understand this reality you understand why the CT, on 35" tires with a 123 kwh battery pack, it going to have average to below average range for an EV truck in the real world.
Once you understand this reality you understand why the CT, on 35" tires with a 123 kwh battery pack, it going to have average to below average range for an EV truck in the real world.
FastEddieB
Member
Source? My limited data set of friends with trucks show “the extreme majority” of them - 100% actually - tow on a regular basis, albeit mostly locally. But I’ll yield to a reliable source indicating your assertion is correct.
In fact, we recently bought an ICE truck primarily to tow. In fact, on vacation in it now!
EV trucks are still less practical for that right now, until range and charger accessibility improve.
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This is how much Tesla cares about you Bottom Feeders, either they are struggling to get FS takers or they really don’t plan on ever selling you the “cheap” version
Based on most every survey of use towing is Far from the typical use case.Source? My limited data set of friends with trucks show “the extreme majority” of them - 100% actually - tow on a regular basis, albeit mostly locally. But I’ll yield to a reliable source indicating your assertion is correct.
In fact, we recently bought an ICE truck primarily to tow. In fact, on vacation in it now!
EV trucks are still less practical for that right now, until range and charger accessibility improve.
HOW OFTEN DO PICKUP TRUCK OWNERS USE THEIR VEHICLES FOR VARIOUS TASKS?
| Frequently | Occasionally | Rarely/Never | |
| Shopping/Errands | 87% | 6% | 7% |
| Pleasure Driving | 70% | 20% | 9% |
| Commuting | 52% | 4% | 44% |
| Personal Hauling | 28% | 41% | 32% |
| Towing | 7% | 29% | 63% |
nice find! @Yelobird
when it comes to survey data, the general audience should keep in mind this is likely self-reported activity. it's a reflection of how truck owners perceive themselves. in this case, the majority perceive themselves to fall into the Rarely/Never: Towing, and the Frequently: Shopping / Errands and Pleasure Driving and Commuting.
I bet that if there were a way to count how many times a trailer were hooked up to the hitch, or the truck bed ever exceeded 1500# of stuff and then mark that as a towing / personal hauling event, that the Rarely/Never columns of Towing and Personal Hauling would go waaaay up. I bet the Frequently - Commuting is under reported. because, again, this is self-reported / how I perceive my truck usage, and people likely report in a way that makes them feel good about their truck purchase.
as an aside, on my way in to work this morning, I saw exactly 0 (zero!) light duty trucks towing / hauling anything. not even a bike on a hitch rack. note again, this is just where I happen to be driving, which was a 45 mile stretch of Highway 101. I did see one really large truck towing a bin full of tree cutting equipment - clearly labeled as a business service / activity.
I hypothesize that CT buyers don't care (if at all) about the towing stats presented in this thread. there are things such as data points that also don't matter - especially with regards to purchasing activity. I bet towing range @ max capacity is one of these data points, that while true, also don't matter. so to claim the CT is therefore "middling" because of a corner case use case is a clear signal of substantial bias.
CT continues to honey badger (as in, DGAF) about your academic arguments about what makes a truck a truck.
when it comes to survey data, the general audience should keep in mind this is likely self-reported activity. it's a reflection of how truck owners perceive themselves. in this case, the majority perceive themselves to fall into the Rarely/Never: Towing, and the Frequently: Shopping / Errands and Pleasure Driving and Commuting.
I bet that if there were a way to count how many times a trailer were hooked up to the hitch, or the truck bed ever exceeded 1500# of stuff and then mark that as a towing / personal hauling event, that the Rarely/Never columns of Towing and Personal Hauling would go waaaay up. I bet the Frequently - Commuting is under reported. because, again, this is self-reported / how I perceive my truck usage, and people likely report in a way that makes them feel good about their truck purchase.
as an aside, on my way in to work this morning, I saw exactly 0 (zero!) light duty trucks towing / hauling anything. not even a bike on a hitch rack. note again, this is just where I happen to be driving, which was a 45 mile stretch of Highway 101. I did see one really large truck towing a bin full of tree cutting equipment - clearly labeled as a business service / activity.
I hypothesize that CT buyers don't care (if at all) about the towing stats presented in this thread. there are things such as data points that also don't matter - especially with regards to purchasing activity. I bet towing range @ max capacity is one of these data points, that while true, also don't matter. so to claim the CT is therefore "middling" because of a corner case use case is a clear signal of substantial bias.
CT continues to honey badger (as in, DGAF) about your academic arguments about what makes a truck a truck.
If you go back into this thread - it has already been agreed upon that towing for 150/1500 series pickups is roughly 1/3 of the use case - as is evidenced by the chart that @Yelobird posted - which has repeatedly been shared in multiple towing threads as well (including earlier in this thread IIRC). This is not new information. What we're really discussing here is why there's a thread entitled "Cybertruck is a scam" and, at least in my estimate, it predominantly comes down to not meeting this use case for the 500 mile version announced back in 2019. So for this subset of the 1/3 of 150/1500 pickup owners that tow/haul regularly, it's very disappointing, and this is a valid shortcoming regardless of what the alpha early adopter fanboy base wants to say about it. Personally, I don't need to tow/haul heavier loads on a regular basis any longer, so I don't fall into this bucket, but I can at least empathize with those who are upset about the shortcomings.
The example I provided earlier was about range - and specifically range when towing. My uncle tows with an F350 - not an F150 - as do many who own larger campers/trailers. There were some folks who owned 250/350 series trucks who did put down a deposit on a CT, expecting the 14k lb towing weight limit to hold, who were also very disappointed with the 11k towing weight limit. Again, I can empathize with their situation. Personally, I never saw any BEV pickup replacing an ICE pickup for these use cases, especially when stepping up to heavy duty trucks, but obviously some others did.
Obviously Tesla is trying to provide alternatives via the range extender and spare tire - but having to have both of these when towing/hauling heavier loads effectively means you lose the entire pickup bed in the process - which introduces it's own challenges for this subset of pickup buyers. This is likely why GM/RAM are introducing pickups with much larger battery packs, which is possible since they have a long enough wheelbase to do so. I'd guess Ford will do the same with the upcoming F200 TTT platform in 2025/2026. By taking this approach - the pickup bed remains free for other uses when traveling over longer distances.
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