Cybertruck Range Edmunds Test

[AlanSubie4Life]

My M3P had about 1% loss per week, summer or winter, if the car was let sleeping with not too much door opening and wakening. Three weeks away in summer costed about 2%.

One week with my MSP (lithium LV batt) use about 0.1% or 0.1kWh per day, so slightly less than 1% a week.

So 3W or so on M3P and about 4W on MSP.

vs. prior measured values of around 6-7W on legacy vehicles.

Another order of magnitude reduction will hopefully come in future. Would prefer not to spend $5-$10 per year on this.

Anyway thanks for the grounded information on what a vehicle operating properly should be expected to do in cold weather.

And I don’t hold it against you that you did not “take one for the team” by letting your pack get to -40C. That frontier will have to be explored by some other intrepid adventurer.

 

[ewoodrick]

Those are facts they don’t want to hear.

So when the ICE uses 30% of it's 12V battery for the security system and random other things, doesn't the engine have to charge the battery back up?
And doesn't that extra charging power come from the ICE gas tank? In the form of power needed to spin the alternator a little harder?

 

[rrolsbe]

I think some clarity on what you are seeing would be good.

It’s unclear to me what is happening in this case. Even in very cold temps you should not be losing that sort of range, assuming the car is sleeping. I have not seen anything like this but have no experienced these temperatures. Other have though (@AAKEE for example) and have not seen this reported.



Yes. Definitely need high power outlets for EVs in cold climates.

It’s an ongoing question what those conditions would be. It is possible it warms the pack below -30C or attempts to cool it above 60C. But I am not sure we know. Doesn’t really make sense that it would be damaged since it will only be able to warm it for a very limited period. Though it might simultaneously cry for help.

Agreed that vampire drain is still too high. It apparently is even lower on new vehicles with the Lithium ~16V pack, though I have not seen a final report from @rrolsbe . But it can go several days between wakeups or something, which would imply “just” a couple watts I think. (Order of magnitude higher than necessary probably.)

Feature drain should be lower too. That is a bit of a screw up.

I have been using the EEVEE app to track when our new 2023 Model 3 wakes since the end of June 2023 . Until about two weeks ago, (AFAIK) it only woke when new firmware was downloaded or it was parked for more than six days; however, about two weeks ago it started to wake randomly while parked. Since I have configured the EEVEE app to not track the car, I have reconnected my Bluetooth Battery Monitor to the 16V battery to log these random wakeups. I started another post on this forum regarding this new behavior. If anyone else is seeing this new behavior, please comment in that thread. At this point, I have not nailed down what is exactly causing this new waking issue.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

So when the ICE uses 30% of it's 12V battery for the security system and random other things, doesn't the engine have to charge the battery back up?
And doesn't that extra charging power come from the ICE gas tank? In the form of power needed to spin the alternator a little harder?

My Highlander 12V seems to take about 2-4 weeks to discharge to the point where I want to tend it. And I think it is kind of slightly on the crappy side of ICE vehicles in this regard.

The 2018 Model 3 seems to take about 1-2 days to discharge.

So, a different order of magnitude is what people are discussing here.

To be clear, I think this difference has nothing to do with the vehicle with higher vampire drain being an EV. (That fact only permits this situation to arise, it does not cause it. People with ICE vehicles with a new 12V would be upset if they left their car for three days and came back to a dead battery.)

Literally everyone agrees all vehicles have vampire drain.

Can roughly compare the slopes, note that the batteries are not the same capacity of course, but not that different.

Highlander:

Model 3:

 

[coleAK]

So when the ICE uses 30% of it's 12V battery for the security system and random other things, doesn't the engine have to charge the battery back up?
And doesn't that extra charging power come from the ICE gas tank? In the form of power needed to spin the alternator a little harder?

On most cars the alternator spins at a fixed speed based on motor speed, no matter what. If the battery needs charging or not.

 

[coleAK]

I’ll Also add that in the cold the loss wasn’t much prior to an update in the last year. The battery would get cold soaked then when it warmed back up from driving you would gain back the lost %. The “blue bar” on the battery indicator at times would show 20-30%. For example there would be times in the winter I would leave work and drive home (uphill) and have 1-2% more then when I left work.

After the update I mention the car uses a ton of battery “conditioning the battery”.

 

[israndy]

You are really dense.

Thanks for the personal attack w/o ANY context, I think that earned you a block, congrats

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

After the update I mention the car uses a ton of battery “conditioning the battery”.

Interesting bug. Definitely have not seen that reported.

 

[rrolsbe]

I’ll Also add that in the cold the loss wasn’t much prior to an update in the last year. The battery would get cold soaked then when it warmed back up from driving you would gain back the lost %. The “blue bar” on the battery indicator at times would show 20-30%. For example there would be times in the winter I would leave work and drive home (uphill) and have 1-2% more then when I left work.

After the update I mention the car uses a ton of battery “conditioning the battery”.

With a blue bar of 20-30%, I assume the traction battery was very cold? I have read that the battery might now be actively warmed while driving and this might have changed in the past year? If the traction battery were way colder than 32F, acceleration might be very limited to a point of being somewhat dangerous. The service menu would show the battery temp at the beginning of the trip up the hill; likewise, SMT can show the battery temp real time and if active heating was occurring. If Chill mode were selected, that might change if or how much active heating might be occurring? Have you always had enough acceleration to climb the hill given the significant blue bar? As you might have guessed, I believe data is the best way to show what is happening.

Regards.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

My 3 after one of the updates in the last year loses 10-20% sitting parked at my cabin for ~48 hours. I lost 18% Friday evening to Sunday afternoon 3 weeks ago.

actively warmed while driving and this might have changed in the past year?

See above for original quote that started this.

This stated behavior is highly abnormal and no one can explain why it is happening. Others in much colder climates than relatively balmy southern Alaska are not seeing this.

It has been stated that Sentry Mode was not active.

To me the only explanation is the car is not sleeping; I would expect 10%-15% over two days in that case.

 

[coleAK]

See above for original quote that started this.

This stated behavior is highly abnormal and no one can explain why it is happening. Others in much colder climates than relatively balmy southern Alaska are not seeing this.

It has been stated that Sentry Mode was not active.

To me the only explanation is the car is not sleeping; I would expect 10%-15% over two days in that case.

And only does it when it’s outside in the cold, in the summer two days at the cabin I don’t even lose one percent. It sat for 10 days in decwmber in my heated garage and I think lost one percent. Everyone I know up here with Tesla (dozens) has the same thing happen. It only really gets bad at below 10 or 15°F when temperatures are sustained.


Again, I get that red wavy line Icon above, and the message that the battery is being conditioned. I wasn’t that way before. I’m not exactly sure when it updated as for most of the last 3 winters I teleworked. The car is sitting outside all day way more often now.

 

[coleAK]

With a blue bar of 20-30%, I assume the traction battery was very cold? I have read that the battery might now be actively warmed while driving and this might have changed in the past year? If the traction battery were way colder than 32F, acceleration might be very limited to a point of being somewhat dangerous. The service menu would show the battery temp at the beginning of the trip up the hill; likewise, SMT can show the battery temp real time and if active heating was occurring. If Chill mode were selected, that might change if or how much active heating might be occurring? Have you always had enough acceleration to climb the hill given the significant blue bar? As you might have guessed, I believe data is the best way to show what is happening.

Regards.

My battery has been down in to the -30’sF regularly. I do lose acceleration according to the car but not to being noticeable by me driving on winter roads in chill. No issues at all in terms of driving function. I regularly drive to my cabin at 65-70 mph when it is -20F to -30F.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Again, I get that red wavy line Icon above, and the message that the battery is being conditioned. I wasn’t that way before. I’m not exactly sure when it updated as for most of the last 3 winters I teleworked. The car is sitting outside all day way more often now.

Definitely sounds abnormal. Are you sure you don’t have some sort of scheduled departure set (which should not go off when not plugged in (I assume - I don't use those crazy features), but could be a bug)?

Anyway @AAKEE does not seem to have this bug.

Highly abnormal and certainly no reason for it at all - this behavior is not doing anything but hurting the battery, after all.

I'd just turn off every possible feature and see what happens. Your car should be asleep in 15-30 minutes. If it's not, it's screwed up. The preconditioning stuff (or something else) could cause it to wake up at some other time though.

12V monitor is useful for stuff like this if you have the 12V, because you can see exactly when it is sleeping.

 

[coleAK]

Aren’t they in Oslo Norway? They have pretty mild winters.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Aren’t they in Oslo Norway? They have pretty mild winters.

You can judge. Sounds like he is down to -42C this winter.

Cybertruck Range Edmunds Test

Anyway it seems clear your behavior is quite unusual and buggy. The car is not sleeping. Have to figure out why. And why that would be connected to cold temps. If it is sleeping, I would guess it is preconditioning erroneously on a schedule.

Whatever is happening is putting unnecessary wear on the battery and contactors.

 

[ewoodrick]

My Highlander 12V seems to take about 2-4 weeks to discharge to the point where I want to tend it. And I think it is kind of slightly on the crappy side of ICE vehicles in this regard.

The 2018 Model 3 seems to take about 1-2 days to discharge.

So, a different order of magnitude is what people are discussing here.

To be clear, I think this difference has nothing to do with the vehicle with higher vampire drain being an EV. (That fact only permits this situation to arise, it does not cause it. People with ICE vehicles with a new 12V would be upset if they left their car for three days and came back to a dead battery.)

Literally everyone agrees all vehicles have vampire drain.

Can roughly compare the slopes, note that the batteries are not the same capacity of course, but not that different.

Highlander:

Model 3:

Sure, a Tesla may have a higher phantom drain than some ICE do. But it tends to de more at rest that ICE does. But that's not really the issue, because Tesla has the large battery to keep 12V one charged.

"Literally everyone agrees all vehicles have vampire drain." Not @TessP100D or @coleAK

Good job on the graphs, but my interpretation seems to be different than your. Sure, the slope says something, but it's the charging voltage and stationary voltage that says more to me. Notice that idle in both cases is about 12.5 volts. It appears that Tesla is providing micro-charges relatively often, but then slowly allows the battery to come down to idle level, which, of course, the ICE doesn't do. It's as if Tesla is effectively trickle charging the battery.

 

[TessP100D]

Sure, a Tesla may have a higher phantom drain than some ICE do. But it tends to de more at rest that ICE does. But that's not really the issue, because Tesla has the large battery to keep 12V one charged.

"Literally everyone agrees all vehicles have vampire drain." Not @TessP100D or @coleAK

Good job on the graphs, but my interpretation seems to be different than your. Sure, the slope says something, but it's the charging voltage and stationary voltage that says more to me. Notice that idle in both cases is about 12.5 volts. It appears that Tesla is providing micro-charges relatively often, but then slowly allows the battery to come down to idle level, which, of course, the ICE doesn't do. It's as if Tesla is effectively trickle charging the battery.

Does your gas tank have less gas in it if your leave for a week? Simple question…

 

[ewoodrick]

On most cars the alternator spins at a fixed speed based on motor speed, no matter what. If the battery needs charging or not.

Wow, you need to understand how an alternator or generator works. Sure, it sits there and spends based upon the engine RPM level (which in itself is an issue). But when the battery is charging, the alternator exerts more force for the engine to overcome. The engine uses more fuel when it has to push the alternator harder.

It's just like a portable generator for your house. While unloaded, you can hear it purring along. Turn on a 1500-watt space heater and you definitely can hear the generator sag down.

 

[ewoodrick]

Does your gas tank have less gas in it if your leave for a week? Simple question…

Indeed, the total energy content of my vehicle has decreased.


If I leave my vehicle along for one week and then drive it for 3 hours, it will indeed have less fuel than if I just drove it for 3 hours in the exact same conditions.

It takes power to charge the battery back up. ICE drivers never think about it, but it definitely happens.

 

[ThomasD]

How much Fuel is lost vs an Electric vehicle Battery? If you leave the vehicle for a Week then get in it and drive for 3 hours?