Dashcam footage of rear end collision

[Mjsais]

1. i would not trust my life to automatic emergency braking, great if it works but what if it doesn’t,
2. your the driver, pay attention.
3. I have mobileye in my 2013 model s. the collission alert sound is significantly louder and annoing in mobileye than the one heard in the video.. maybe tesla needs to make that warning sound more difficult to ignore

 

[Az_Rael]

Automatic emergency braking is off. You can have the warning on but braking off.

You can, but I believe you have to turn AEB off every single time you drive (it doesn't "stick" off), so I doubt many are in the habit of doing that.

I am guessing the fact that the car in front was stopped fooled the system. Looking at the speed info on the dash cam screen, they were going 46 and only dropped to 44 right before the accident, so no hard braking before the crash.

 

[Russell]

Turn up the volume. It sounds like they were having an argument.

I think the beeps we heard was the Forward Collision Warning.
According to the manual, Forward Collision Warning does not apply the brakes. It only makes a visual and audible alert.

AEB only reduces impact, not prevent it.
Warning: Automatic Emergency Braking is designed to reduce the severity of an impact. It is not designed to avoid a collision.

 

[Jan Fiala]

So let me summarize. We've now seen numerous instances where AEB of Tesla failed to do anything. On the other hand there are several videos of the AEB of other manufacturers where it clearly works not only reducing the impact but even by avoiding the collision completely.

AEB was one of the reasons I chose Tesla. It's quite legitimate to question whenever their system even works.

And yes, this is definitely the best example when it should kick in.

 

[Ande]

We don't even know what the settings were, the only obvious error is on the human side.

 

[Jan Fiala]

We don't even know what the settings were, the only obvious error is on the human side.

You are absolutely right, but we are all humans and we do mistakes. Thats why AEB is there. You really do not believe that the driver disabled the AEB, do you? Seeing this should really rise reasonable doubts about the Teslas AEB and Tesla has to explain this.

 

[whitex]

So let me summarize. We've now seen numerous instances where AEB of Tesla failed to do anything. On the other hand there are several videos of the AEB of other manufacturers where it clearly works not only reducing the impact but even by avoiding the collision completely.

AEB was one of the reasons I chose Tesla. It's quite legitimate to question whenever their system even works.

And yes, this is definitely the best example when it should kick in.

AEB, like other Tesla features are all "beta" and they only work in a very narrow set of situations. No different than summon, parking sensor blind spot warning, etc. Elon likes to hype things like "AP1 will find you anywhere on private property" but then reality hits and what is actually delivered is "drive in a straight line up to 40 feet while you hold a dead-man-switch making sure the car doesn't hit anything". AEB probably works most of the time (meaning will slow the car down, not stop) in daylight, no rain, perfect visibility, no flashing lights, no road reflections, not driving towards the sun, not too many extra cars around outside of regular lanes, no people walking on the road, etc. The conditions in this video were far from ideal for beta features.

 

[brkaus]

Any AEB solution has a problem with path prediction. I get the warning occasionally and hitting the brakes would be inappropriate. The problem is the car would never know either way.

Why? On my drive every morning, when I turn off surface streets onto the larger road, there is a ramp/entrance lane that appears on the right hand side. Traffic is typically backed up at the stoplight, but since the lane opens up on the right I can keep my 30mph and shift over to that lane before I slam into the car in front stopped at the light.

I'm not going dangerously fast. I have a clear path. If the car did the AEB number on me, I'd likely be hit by the car behind me doing the same thing. Yet, sometimes it still beeps on me.

The car has no idea that I have an escape path and plan. I could just as easily be not paying attention.

Now, if the car is in AutoSteer, it should know the path runs out and at least slow the car if it cannot stop it.

There are plenty of videos of other AEB systems hitting other cars. There are also videos of them working.

 

[Jan Fiala]

Ah, come on. Do you have any single video of AEB Tesla working properly? I havent seen one.... On the other hand, I've seen plenty of them from Volvo or Subaru working great.

 

[Ande]

You are absolutely right, but we are all humans and we do mistakes. Thats why AEB is there. You really do not believe that the driver disabled the AEB, do you? Seeing this should really rise reasonable doubts about the Teslas AEB and Tesla has to explain this.

I would be the first to advocate for the user to be able to download own logs, and analyze them - I do UAV log analysis.
Unless you have the log, it's really pointless.
-the accelerator could have been pressed
-the car may not even have AEB
-the warning configuration is unknown (early late)
-we do not know if it is an AP1 (relying mainly on radar) or an stereocam AP. (Radar cannot properly discriminate between stopped vehicle, and other reflections.)
-we do not know anything about the radar data collected, of the camera/radar were properly calibrated... nothing.

Tesla does not have to explain anything, but I would love to have the logs, but no car maker gives them out...

I've seen plenty of them from Volvo or Subaru working great.

yes, google all those nice videos of Volvos crash during automatic-stop tests in front of journalists, that happened more than once. this is the latest one I know of:

My neighbor, (with Volvo V90 (2018) disabled at least those two functions (I do not know the names)
1: warning that went bananas on narrow roads (trees near road, forest not trimmed) - aka: the road home
2:the collision thing that braked hard every time due to a transformer hut that is placed near a road turn (so you head for it every day) - which is the reason he asked me if my did that. - but it also braked hard for busses on bus stops (hardly, but outside otherwise narrow lane)


All such things have a narrow balance between "useful" and "nagging mess"
I prefer an occasional warning, and later maybe "too late" braking, which would save a vigilant driver from hard crash, or allow to stop in time if responded in time.
I do NOT prefer crazy agressive warning mess that makes people disable the features altogether.

 

[quickstrike12]

Ah, come on. Do you have any single video of AEB Tesla working properly? I havent seen one.... On the other hand, I've seen plenty of them from Volvo or Subaru working great.

Man I have to agree. I am koolaid drinking tesla lover.
But I am finding it very hard to believe that AEB actually does anything in our cars. I want badly to be proven wrong. But each time these things happen we go through the same discussion.

 

[SilkySmooth]

Someone in the youtube thread claims AEB isn't supposed to work over 40 mph to prevent high speed false positives. I can see the logic, but is that true?

 

[Racerx22b]

Man I have to agree. I am koolaid drinking tesla lover.
But I am finding it very hard to believe that AEB actually does anything in our cars. I want badly to be proven wrong. But each time these things happen we go through the same discussion.

I don't have a video, just my wife's testimony. And believe me, she wouldn't tell me she f'd something up unless the outcome turned out ok. She'll never admit to a mistake. You feel me?

She was SB on the FL turnpike approaching Lake Worth Rd, which is known to backup from the onslaught of cars merging onto the Turnpike. All was clear going up the bridge, she looked down to adjust the AC or radio (she doesn't remember) as she was going up the bridge and all of the sudden the car beeps and slams the brakes as it crests the top of the bridge. 75mph up the bridge to a dead stop on the backside of the bridge. She made no contact with the car stopped in front of her. The system worked flawlessly. My wife could not believe the braking power.

2015 Model S 85 with AP1. This happened about a year ago.

YMMV

 

[quickstrike12]

@Racerx22b
Thank you for sharing. That is good to hear. Hopefully I won’t need to find out anytime soon on my own.

 

[croman]

Someone in the youtube thread claims AEB isn't supposed to work over 40 mph to prevent high speed false positives. I can see the logic, but is that true?

Not true. Claims to reduce severity of collisions. 25mph reduction. IIHS tested so did NHSTA. I dunno why theyd pass Tesla if it didn't work on the tests at least. Real life is hard.

 

[dhanson865]

Someone in the youtube thread claims AEB isn't supposed to work over 40 mph to prevent high speed false positives. I can see the logic, but is that true?

From an owners manual

Automatic Emergency Braking operates only when driving between approximately 7 mph (10 km/h) and 90 mph (150 km/h).

So no I don't believe someone saying that it doesn't kick in if you are going over 40. However it won't stop the car from hitting something if that is what you expect.

Warning: Automatic Emergency Braking is designed to reduce the severity of an impact. It is not designed to avoid a collision.

Warning: Several factors can affect the performance of Automatic Emergency Braking, causing either no braking or inappropriate or untimely braking. It is the driver’s responsibility to drive safely and
remain in control of the vehicle at all times. Never depend on Automatic Emergency Braking to avoid or reduce the impact of a collision.

 

[Ande]

I am often driving quite aggressively between some roundabouts between work and home, sometimes, on dry asphalt, I approached cars in front of me at optimistic speed (hoping they accelerate well) and at least a few times, in the moment I lifted my foot from accelerator (used regen) and not yet needed to apply brakes , I heard the warning sound and felt the brake pedal sink on it's own,.
not really an emergency, only aggressive driving, so I don't know whatever the automatic braking would be enough to stop or what...

I have also experienced hard brake for a pedestrian apparently stepping fast out into the curving road (the lady jumped some water, and thus made a fast movement as if she would run put into the road.

 

[Pinot.Noir]

I'm very surprised the driver made that dashcam footage available! Under similar circumstances I don't think I'd publicly release such evidence of my stupidity.

 

[SilkySmooth]

From an owners manual



So no I don't believe someone saying that it doesn't kick in if you are going over 40. However it won't stop the car from hitting something if that is what you expect.

Thanks for pointing that out. I need to do more reading of the online manual.

Though I didn't expect AEB to take the speed to 0, at least in this video it did not appear to engage at all. I would be interested in seeing examples where it works to observe its intended behavior.

 

[Russell]

According to Tesla, AEB will not apply the brakes if it senses an alternate collision avoidance strategy exists.


Last paragraph in this article Tesla's Autopilot Seemingly Does Nothing to Avoid Hitting This Pedestrian

"Model S and Model X are equipped with Automatic Emergency Braking (AEB), which is designed to engage the brakes at the last possible moment to avoid or mitigate a collision. AEB does not engage when an alternative collision avoidance strategy (e.g., driver steering) remains viable...."

In the case of the youtube video, the right lane was open.