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I also got some info from a friend of mine who placed an order in the ID4. Apparently the price is not locked on the order date and can go up on delivery date. So Tesla is also way ahead on that front.I came across this thread on reddit;
Seems like dealers will still try to get you to play the "mark-up" game, and you have to try and get VW involved...
Except that's not a correct characterization. People are locking in at lower prices at order time and just waiting a bit longer to get their cars at MSRP. That the prices get higher later, doesn't affect them (in fact makes them feel better about ordering at the time they did, at a price they are ok with). With the dealer process, even when you do a "reservation", they raise your price by the time you take delivery. With Tesla you also avoid the unpleasant negotiation experience.Tesla: Raises prices 33% in a year and blatantly prioritizes more profitable deliveries by moving people who buy snake oil FSD and ridiculously overpriced wheels to the front of the line. TMC collectively shrugs.
Other dealers: Raise prices above MSRP due to unprecedented demand and historically low inventory. TMC clutches pearls and collectively loses its mind over unspeakably predatory and unscrupulous dealers responding to the market.
Yup, checks out.
Except that's not a correct characterization. People are locking in at lower prices at order time and just waiting a bit longer to get their cars at MSRP. That the prices get higher later, doesn't affect them (in fact makes them feel better about ordering at the time they did, at a price they are ok with). With the dealer process, even when you do a "reservation", they raise your price by the time you take delivery. With Tesla you also avoid the unpleasant negotiation experience.
That's the whole issue, good luck finding a dealer willing to sign paperwork like that on a hot product. Plenty of stories where they pretend to do that, but the paperwork ends up not legally binding and they screw you later.If you custom order a car from a dealer and agree on price ahead of time and have a contract that says so, then I agree they should honor that contract and it’s shady/sheisty not to.
Those accounts are just talking about in general. Manufacturer price increases (and decontenting) includes parts/labor increases and inflation, while dealership "market adjustments" typically are purely going to more profit, which is why people hate them. Plenty of people hate the idea of negotiating for a car and the dealership playing games, which is fundamentally different from paying a set price, where even if the manufacturer increases prices, that is all transparent to the buyer (and applies to all buyers ordering at the given moment). If you are ok or even happy with the traditional negotiation process obviously you will not be able to understand the perspectives of those that hate it.But that particular case is only a small fraction of the moaning in this thread. Plenty of others are walking in off the street and seem to be SHOCKED that a dealer would dare ask them to pay over MSRP for a car on the lot.
Like the guy right above me who seems to think he really told that Lexus dealer what’s up by walking out the door and going to buy a Volvo. Lexus sold that car to the next guy, for what they were asking, 4 hours later. Lexus doesn’t care that Volvo apparently doesn’t have the demand “problem” that they do.
Dealers have all the cards right now. Seems like people aren’t used to that.
Tesla is playing the same exact game, making hay while they can.
thank you. this one-sided blindness is beyond ridiculous. if Tesla would build up the SC experience with all these extra profits... ok... i would feel better. but that's clearly not the case with lines getting longer and longer and repairs being pushed out due to staffing. at least a traditional "stealership" will get you in the next day and the repair won't take weeks and you can't speak to a person and oh...uber credits only...Tesla: Raises prices 33% in a year and blatantly prioritizes more profitable deliveries by moving people who buy snake oil FSD and ridiculously overpriced wheels to the front of the line. TMC collectively shrugs.
Other dealers: Raise prices above MSRP due to unprecedented demand and historically low inventory. TMC clutches pearls and collectively loses its mind over unspeakably predatory and unscrupulous dealers responding to the market.
Yup, checks out.
OK, So who's being one-sided blindness here. Because I've had all those things happen at regular dealerships! You don't get in the next day, they'll schedule you out weeks to get a repair done, and they won't even give you uber credits. just a sorry you're on your own for transportation.thank you. this one-sided blindness is beyond ridiculous. if Tesla would build up the SC experience with all these extra profits... ok... i would feel better. but that's clearly not the case with lines getting longer and longer and repairs being pushed out due to staffing. at least a traditional "stealership" will get you in the next day and the repair won't take weeks and you can't speak to a person and oh...uber credits only...
I think you meant to say that with fewer units sold dealerships need to generate more income per unit in order to make the same overall profit. Which, of course, begs the question of why dealerships are entitled to the same amount of (obscene) profits.but what if a dealer only sells 1000 cars annually because of limited supply/ chip shortage and they used to sell 2000 cars in a normal year? Assuming their costs/ expenses are the same ... they need to generate more profit with each of the cars sold to come close to prior year revenue...
I don't believe you can equate markups with a desire to slow EV adoption. It just a basic case of supply vs. demand (i.e., Econ 101). They will still continue to apply markups on whatever they sell, ICE or EV, just because they can. In fact I'd say that with more people getting on the EV bandwagon, they will start reducing their markups on ICE vehicles (except those that are extremely popular, like pickups) and increase their prices on EV and PHEV simply because demand for those will rise.I admit I’m torn. I hate dealerships because they are (intentionally) slowing the movement to EV’s with their markups, but on the other hand I believe they are hastening their own demise which can‘t come soon enough.
The customers do have control, when voting with their $. What we are willing to pay, Who we buy from and who we do not, all make difference in what companies consider acceptable behavior. Behaviors can be changed, but getting people to do something other than what is strictly in their best interest is like herding cats.I don't believe you can equate markups with a desire to slow EV adoption. It just a basic case of supply vs. demand (i.e., Econ 101). They will still continue to apply markups on whatever they sell, ICE or EV, just because they can. In fact I'd say that with more people getting on the EV bandwagon, they will start reducing their markups on ICE vehicles (except those that are extremely popular, like pickups) and increase their prices on EV and PHEV simply because demand for those will rise.
Yes we do. I think that's why Tesla has done so well with market penetration, despite their occasional price increases. When everybody pays the same price (at the same moment) it suggests a level playing field. Let's see if the Big 3 and foreign automakers can force their products to be sold at a standard price, like MSRP. I'd say not, as long as they adhere to the status quo with their independent dealership model. That lobby has great power and I don't see it changing that soon.The customers do have control, when voting with their $. What we are willing to pay, Who we buy from and who we do not, all make difference in what companies consider acceptable behavior. Behaviors can be changed, but getting people to do something other than what is strictly in their best interest is like herding cats.
I don’t believe Econ 101 applies here. The dealerships know that by marking up the cost of an EV they’ll steer customers to their ICE’s — which bring in larger profits from ongoing maintenance. With EV’s in short supply a potential customer can’t just drive down the street and shop for another, like they can with an overpriced ICE. It’s true dealerships will always take advantage of short supplies by jacking up prices but in this case the purchase price doesn’t tell the whole story. Dealers want to “recoup” lost maintenance profits by charging for it up front.I don't believe you can equate markups with a desire to slow EV adoption. It just a basic case of supply vs. demand (i.e., Econ 101). They will still continue to apply markups on whatever they sell, ICE or EV, just because they can.