Dear Elon,........

[erthquake]

Camry 1990, I4 luxury edition, 28 year old material tech - 2800lb, 29mpg highway, 115HP.
Camry 2018, I4 luxury edition, modern composites, polymers, aluminum, better engineering, - 3400lb, 41mpg highway, 203HP

Imagine a 2800lb Camry with 203HP. Pocket rocket w/45mpg!

You also have to include interior and trunk volume differences. Cars have gotten bigger, not just heavier.

 

[Compton]

Ummmmm, didn’t all scientists believe in the indivisability of the atom at one time or earth, fire, water,etc right up to when someone threw a hammer through the screen?( sorry for borrowing the image, Steve.]. I am always suspicious of unanimity.

I didn't mean that scientific consensus is infallible. I meant that a layman (or a scientist outside of his/her specialty) has the best statistical probability to be right when he follows the current scientific consensus because most of the time it is right or at least closest to the truth.

To repeat myself, hard science is not error-free but it's the best thing we have available and is more likely to give the factually correct conclusion than gut-feeling and superficial understanding of a complex subject. It should be obvious but for whatever reason for some it's not.

To quote Carl Sagan in "Wonder ans Skepticism"; The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true. We have a method, and that method helps us to reach not absolute truth, only asymptotic approaches to the truth — never there, just closer and closer, always finding vast new oceans of undiscovered possibilities. Cleverly designed experiments are the key.

Or another Sagan quote from CSICOP conference in 1987; In science it often happens that scientists say, "You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken," and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion.

 

[McRat]

You also have to include interior and trunk volume differences. Cars have gotten bigger, not just heavier.

OK, 2002 Z06 3080lb with 1/2 a tank the day it was purchased, steel frame.
2018 Z06 full tank, aluminum frame. 3524lb.
Both use a V8 front engine, rear transaxle, seat two, and have lousy storage.
One uses iron brakes, one carbon ceramic. The 2018 uses much more titanium and far, far less steel.

 

[Jack6591]

I am still trying to figure out who is buying all the SUVs, and light trucks. Democrats are in the majority.

Perhaps things are not as 'simple' as they are made out to be. Theoretically, Tesla is Republican. Mandatory unionization is part of the Democrat platform going back generations. But it's not that simple is it?

That's what happens when you stereotype, and label folk as good or bad based on the buzzwords of the day without bothering with facts.

I find it bizarre that on a car board so many folk do not understand cars.

Some notes:

• The further a car drives the more energy it uses. Cut your driving if you want to make a big difference.
• ICE tech is inferior to electromotive propulsion. It has nothing to do with whales or tofu. It has a tech advantage. Call it science. It will take over just like ball-point pens did.
• ICE tech is getting green due to the horsepower war. Efficiency, BSFC, and HP are branches off the same tree. Cars will get greener until the war ends no matter what you do.
• Adding weight to cars makes them less efficient. Much of weight gains since 1990 are mandates.
• Fuel for ICE can be nearly zero emission, including GHG. Carbon can be used to carry energy and recycled.

My Uncle Henry meticulously maintained every car he ever owned. I would have bought a used car from him without a second thought.

Not everyone is as responsible as my Uncle Henry. ICE cars vary widely in their level of maintenance. As they age, gaskets, seals and mechanical components age, wear and deteriorate. Over time, ICEs pollute more and more.

EVs in contrast, are powered by an electrical grid that uses a greater and greater mix of clean energy. Over time, EVs pollute less and less.

 

[erthquake]

OK, 2002 Z06 3080lb with 1/2 a tank the day it was purchased, steel frame.
2018 Z06 full tank, aluminum frame. 3524lb.
Both use a V8 front engine, rear transaxle, seat two, and have lousy storage.
One uses iron brakes, one carbon ceramic. The 2018 uses much more titanium and far, far less steel.

What?! You can't use a different car than you did for the Camry weight stats. What are the interior and trunk volumes for the 1990 and 2018 Camry?! That you ignored my Camry request suggests you're not interested in truth, only supported a preconcieved belief system.

 

[vinnie97]

Can't believe I'm still returning to this incendiary thread, but...

The only people who believe that "saying something makes it a fact", are people who: 1) do not understand the concept of critical thinking and data analysis, 2) most of the people working in the current administration, 3) Fox News hosts.

Am I to assume you think CNN and MSNBC aren't guilty of the same kind of hubris and presumptuous behavior? You have to step away from the CO2 is death topic before honestly answering the question. Their primary goal isn't to report the news but shape public opinion. Journalism is dead. And in no way does the lack of critical thinking apply only to your political enemies in this administration.

 

[McRat]

What?! You can't use a different car than you did for the Camry weight stats. What are the interior and trunk volumes for the 1990 and 2018 Camry?! That you ignored my Camry request suggests you're not interested in truth, only supported a preconcieved belief system.

Pick any car.

 

[Dr. J]

Am I to assume you think CNN and MSNBC aren't guilty of the same kind of hubris and presumptuous behavior? .... Their primary goal isn't to report the news but shape public opinion. Journalism is dead.

Ironically, there is a quote from a CNN journalist in this definition of Whataboutism.

What would be the point of journalism if it lacked the goal of shaping public opinion? The question is one of integrity. Journalism is far from dead--print journalism (WaPo, NYT, even WSJ at times) is having a renaissance, and may well survive the internet, due to the current unpleasantness.

 

[Jack6591]

I grew up with Walter Cronkite. A man of integrity. The de-evolution of the American news media, makes me sad.

 

[erthquake]

Pick any car.

I did. The Camry that you posted upthread.

 

[karpodiem]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/001/096/564/2f7.jpg

 

[Jack6591]

Thanks Elon.

 

[Jack6591]

I am having a great day.