December Issue Consumer Reports

[JohnSnowNW]

Consumer reports is the best in the business- no advertising, no axe to grind. From what I've seen from reading a ton of forum posts, I fully expect my M3 to be less reliable in many ways that most cars I've owned. I'm hoping the drive train is more reliable. It's a new company and not shocking they have startup problems. However, the car is just astounding to drive. I wouldn't give trade it back now even for a full refund.

Ehh, they may be the best in the business...but that doesn't appear to be a high bar to overcome. Their call to disable AP was absurd, and the Bolt vs 75D Hwy range article was utter shite.

While I would say that their reliability ratings aren't inaccurate, they certainly don't take into consideration the technology/complexity gap that exists between the vehicles they're comparing.

 

[astrowunder]

I think a comparison for Teslas may be Chevy Corvettes- they also have relatively bad reliability in CR, but also have a crazy strong fan base.

 

[Perry]

So demoralizing. I’m expecting my Model 3 in about a week. Yes, I’ve read the multitude of posts in these forums about the issues upon delivery and beyond. I didn’t know exactly how Tesla was rated as a whole though. Not until I read this new CR on vehicle dependability. The Model X was by far the worst but the all of the models ranked low. Has anyone else read this? I don’t know what to think. Growing pains? This is made worse by the service center reports I’ve been reading about. I sure would like to be convinced to the contrary.

Your fears are about right. Its probably the worse part about Tesla. When I got my car I noted all the issues and was assured that if I did not reject it, all will be fixed at service center (huge panel gap differences and miss-alignments, paint issues, loose rattles, the usual stuff) and that I would be contacted in 3 days to resolve the issues. I was never contacted over a week later so I took the initiative to schedule a service visit which was two weeks out. Have had the car for two months but it has been in the service center two times for ~2.5 weeks each (5 total). So its been in the shop more than not.

Service has been a negative experience for me. First time I went they told me after 3 weeks of it being there that they could not do much because they didn't have any open slots for the body-shop (apparently it is a different entity than the service center). But they didn't notify me of this. If I wouldn't have called to demand a status check they would have kept it there for who knows how long.

Second time they fixed most of the stuff but only 50% of them to my satisfaction. In other words they fixes did not make it like new just slightly less ugly. The other stuff was "within spec", which is their term for, its not bad enough for us to fix so you'll have to live with it even though no other manufacturer has such significant manufacturing problems.

Now I have to take it in for a third time because since I got it back, I now have a noise that wasn't there before under the seat. Maybe they forgot a tool or something.

What Tesla service does, is pound you down with so many negative experiences that it makes you capitulate and live with the flaws. I dread it every time I go. Not knowing if they may add more problems through the process. They don't always have loaner cars. When they do its usually some cheep Hyunday that stinks of tobacco and other people's body odor.

Other than that, the car drives great.

 

[dhanson865]

Og all the magazines out there, CR is the least clickbait. Clickbait is to drive clicks to drive up ad revenue. CR doesn't to the ad revenue thing.

Like it or hate it, CR try to use some measure of data to make their ratings. According to the research methodology, CR readers who own Tesla products reported problems and that's what is being reported. Is that reliable data? Perhaps not, but it's far from clickbait.

If you look at these forums, there are a LOT of problems being reported. The number of "worst" that show up in titles is rather troubling. Teslas are awesomely designed cars, but they do have problems.

CR is the long con version of clickbait. They put out low accuracy statistics and a headline sometimes and hope you'll consider them the authority on the subject. The goal, subscriptions. It's not ad money but it still comes in after the clickbait.

2010 Consumer Reports Survey Analysis: Part One: Insufficient Data - The Truth About Cars
Seven Serious Problems withConsumer Reports
Change, but not for the better:Consumer Reports' new ratings
Consumer Reports Announces Reliability Data; Not a TTAC Fan - The Truth About Cars

and this random quote about the ratings "Unfortunately, the difference between a car that is good and one that isn't happens at least 5 years in the future."

In case you didn't read any of the links above Consumer Reports car data is 1.7 years old each year just before the annual update, just after the update it's .7 years old. If there is a new model they guess at the reliability for a year or two until they get enough survey results.

I wonder how many cars in 2018 they don't have enough results for similar to that article from 2010 talking about missing data for 2009 and 2010 models.

We can say with certainty that they don't have enough data for any meaningful statements about the Tesla Model 3 this early in the game.

 

[colettimj]

So demoralizing. I’m expecting my Model 3 in about a week. Yes, I’ve read the multitude of posts in these forums about the issues upon delivery and beyond. I didn’t know exactly how Tesla was rated as a whole though. Not until I read this new CR on vehicle dependability. The Model X was by far the worst but the all of the models ranked low. Has anyone else read this? I don’t know what to think. Growing pains? This is made worse by the service center reports I’ve been reading about. I sure would like to be convinced to the contrary.

Not sure what to say about CR since I haven't read what they wrote and I'm not familiar with their methodology. I do think, however, that most people don't spend the time to post on sites like this just to say, "Had a great service/delivery experience"

So here's my story for what it's worth.

Picked up my 3 in mid-May from Devon, PA. In and out in about 20 mins. Now this was before the delivery nightmare so maybe that helped. Noted a minor chrome misalignment at delivery but no other issues. I later noticed a smudge on the windshield that I couldn't remove. I was able to get an appointment in Cherry Hill, NJ about a week later and they resolved all issues.

I later messed up the fabric on the dash so called Cherry Hill to get the replacement part ordered. I think it was going to be around $80 parts and labor. While waiting for the part (took about 2 months) I noticed moisture in the right rear brake light I scheduled an appointment after the part came in. Tesla CH fixed the brake light and didn't charge for the dash parts or labor since it took so long to come in

Now this isn't my first "3". I traded in a 2004 3-Series convertible

That car,... I had the original windshield replaced due to waviness in the glass. Lost all power at highway speed in a thunderstorm (loose battery cable}. That was the opposite of "fun". After a few months I discovered that I couldn't put the top down (hydraulic cable was crimped which the dealer fixed), then couldn't put the top down again after another month or so (dealer really did fix it this time). Years later I got an offer from a BMW dealer for a good bit off on a service for the car. Brought it in and got a call later that the service was complete but the convertible top wasn't working. I had to walk them through expanding the compartment in the trunk that holds the top so they could get it down (it was winter and I had collapsed it to gain more trunk space).

All of the above except the last service I mentioned for the BMW were no cost to me.

Oh, wait, I forgot my first paid service on the 3, about $31 for a tire rotation.

Hey, I'm not saying I'm not concerned when I hear about these horror stories and reliability surveys but it's not something I have experienced [reaches over, knocks on wood].

 

[ngogas]

Two of the worse vehicle that i own were 2000 Jeep Cherokee and 2009 BMW x5. Those two cars where in the shop more then my garage! So far my model 3 spends more time in my garage then those too so screw CR.

 

[Johnstac]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Certainly mixed. And yes, the article does primarily focus on the Model X but the last two pages ranked all cars. Here is where the Model 3 placed in its class:

The only consolation here is that they all ranked poorly.

 

[Tjhappel]

We’ve had 3 tesla’s and the only issues were from my first 2014 model s which were just small things like door handle and pano roof alignment, our 2017 x has been essentially perfect except for the yellow ring around the screen (which I think is either software related bug or a very large bad batch of screens) and my model 3 being the absolute simplest of all of them has been flawless and I really can’t imagine anything crazy going wrong with it.

Love their cars and wouldn’t go back to anything else. Early s/x have some issues but they do fix them.

 

[shrspeedblade]

Let me put this as delicately as possible:

F*** Consumer Reports!

(I'll stop there, or I might let slip how I really feel.)

 

[NeverFollow]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Certainly mixed. And yes, the article does primarily focus on the Model X but the last two pages ranked all cars. Here is where the Model 3 placed in its class:

It's a less than one year old car, how can you measure reliability.

I bought a VW GTI in 1987, it has bad review from CR, while it was the best car sold in Europe for the past ten years.
I still have it after 30+ years and it run fine with 400k miles, with only typical maintenance work.

Tesla build already about 100,000 Model 3, if there have been any major issue, it would be well know.

I got a 4WD, mostly considering the weight of the car, to spread the stress between the two axles,
instead of having a single axle doing all the pulling.

Only little worry is that everytime I open a door, the window roll down and then up after I close, for about an inch.
This mechanism will certainly worn out sometime, but it will not be too difficult to replace if needed.

Most important is the battery. There is a 8 years 120 k miles warranty.
The battery is water cooled, not like the Nissan, this was another argument for getting a Tesla.

 

[Raechris]

So demoralizing. I’m expecting my Model 3 in about a week. Yes, I’ve read the multitude of posts in these forums about the issues upon delivery and beyond. I didn’t know exactly how Tesla was rated as a whole though. Not until I read this new CR on vehicle dependability. The Model X was by far the worst but the all of the models ranked low. Has anyone else read this? I don’t know what to think. Growing pains? This is made worse by the service center reports I’ve been reading about. I sure would like to be convinced to the contrary.

Don’t worry all will be fine. It is normal to have all these little bouts of positive and negative anxiety leading up to your wormhole entry to the future. Once you own your car you will wonder what all the complaining on this forum was about.

 

[Johnstac]

Don’t worry all will be fine. It is normal to have all these little bouts of positive and negative anxiety leading up to your wormhole entry to the future. Once you own your car you will wonder what all the complaining on this forum was about.

Despite my pre-purchase anxiety, I’m still moving forward. My Model 3 is due to be delivered this Friday. With tax, license and registration I’m at 78,000. This is a lot of money to a guy like me. In fact, it will be about twice what I’ve ever spent on a new car. Still, I love the car and the technology behind it. I support what Elon is doing here and yes, I want to go fast! So yes the CR article is concerning but it’s not the be all, end all. I’m mostly just nervous and want to make sure it’s a good decision. Shoot, I haven’t even test driven the car. I’ve only ever seen two of them on the road in my area lol. I was sold though after watching all the reactions on YouTube videos!

 

[FranceUSA]

It will be fine. I have a 3+ with 4000 miles and no problem.
No air suspension! That’s great news since air suspensions are like boats. You love it the 1st day and you love it when you sell the boat.
I converted my air suspension on 2 SUVs to coil. Tesla should do a kit for the X and S to do a coil conversion.
No crazy gulf wings. No front dériver dash with electronics that will break. Worst case just get a “new 15 inch laptop”

 

[Maximilien]

I have S, X and now 3.

They all runs like champs and haven't had major issues so far. I love the spartan interior and the sexy exterior.

At first Model X wing doors gave some issues before but it was very minor and insignificant. It worked fine after some updates.

Maybe I am just lucky that I haven't had some nightmare issues.

Model 3 seems built more robust with more cutting technology. Don't worry much about CR report. Besides it got highest grades on crash test and it is very reliable and safe car.

 

[astrowunder]

Despite my pre-purchase anxiety, I’m still moving forward. My Model 3 is due to be delivered this Friday. With tax, license and registration I’m at 78,000. This is a lot of money to a guy like me. In fact, it will be about twice what I’ve ever spent on a new car. Still, I love the car and the technology behind it. I support what Elon is doing here and yes, I want to go fast! So yes the CR article is concerning but it’s not the be all, end all. I’m mostly just nervous and want to make sure it’s a good decision. Shoot, I haven’t even test driven the car. I’ve only ever seen two of them on the road in my area lol. I was sold though after watching all the reactions on YouTube videos!

I'm exactly in your position except I've now had mine for exactly a month (P3D-). Just a fantastic, fantastic car. The company needs a lot of work though.

 

[Gavyne]

I generally find Consumer Reports ok, but they rubbed off on me the wrong way when they awarded Cadillac #1 in automated driving systems. This is despite Tesla's autopilot being better at capability, performance, and ease of use...the 3 things arguably being most important to those looking for autopilot driving. But they gave Cadillac #1 for being able to keep drivers engaged better and better unresponsive drivers alert system.

That just speaks of either bias, or a terrible grading system. Tesla has the best autopilot system on the market, and they excel where it matters at performance, capability, and ease of use. I don't think anybody who owns a Tesla would want to be nagged even more than we already do. If CR must go with that system they should've had multiple #1's, like #1 at autopilot performance, #1 at keeping drivers engaged. Anyways, if they could write up such report like that being a major publication, it makes you wonder what else they do that is questionable.

With that said I do expect Model 3 to not win in every categories out there. It's already the safest car, the best EV available on the market, has the best autopilot system, the newest tech in terms of over the air updates and smooth touchscreen interface, best battery range, and has the best acceleration at these price points...it's gotta give somewhere. Not as reliable as some of the more seasoned cars out there? Sure, I'll take it.

 

[NeverFollow]

I generally find Consumer Reports ok, but they rubbed off on me the wrong way
when they awarded Cadillac #1 in automated driving systems.
This is despite Tesla's autopilot being better at capability, performance, and ease of use...
the 3 things arguably being most important to those looking for autopilot driving.
But they gave Cadillac #1 for being able to keep drivers engaged better
and better unresponsive drivers alert system.

You can review the CR video to judge by yourself:

0:43 The 5 Criteria evaluated
1:23 Volvo Pilot Assist
1:55 Nissan ProPilot Assist
2:11 Tesla AutoPilot
2:41 Cadillac Super Cruise

 

[Az_Rael]

But they gave Cadillac #1 for being able to keep drivers engaged better and better unresponsive drivers alert system.

That just speaks of either bias, or a terrible grading system.

I think CR is just more heavily biased towards what they perceive to be a safety issue. They even state that upfront, saying they don’t like when the systems can be engaged in situations where they may not be safe to use. I don’t disagree with them on that, I find it a bit fascinating that Tesla is using the Darwin method and letting folks use AP in construction zones, or on surface streets, etc. I also agree with their assessment of the human factors involved. We see news reports of people who had accidents while on AP and then admitted they were on their cell phone. The folks here are generally more informed about the limits of AP, but I imagine there is a portion of regular Tesla customers that trust the system way too much. There was even a post here the other day by a fellow who no longer checks blind spots when changing lanes, since the car is so good at it now. He completely trusts that AP will make the lane change safely every single time.


I do like CR, since they can push Tesla to make changes. It was good they discovered the Model 3 braking distance issue early and Tesla fixed it.

 

[ecarfan]

Despite my pre-purchase anxiety, I’m still moving forward. My Model 3 is due to be delivered this Friday. With tax, license and registration I’m at 78,000. This is a lot of money to a guy like me. In fact, it will be about twice what I’ve ever spent on a new car. Still, I love the car and the technology behind it. I support what Elon is doing here and yes, I want to go fast!

Glad to hear it. Please start a new thread when you get your car and give us your first ownership impressions.

I bought my first Tesla in 2013. At this point I’ve now owned every model Tesla has ever made, and currently own an X and a 3. Extremely happy with my 3! I will never own an ICE again, and Tesla clearly makes the best EVs. They are not perfect. But they are amazing.

 

[butlp]

I purchase a Kia Sorento LX in 2016 after reading the glowing reports from CR. They claimed it to be the best 7 seat SUV available and a "Best Buy" with high marks in every category. However, mine was plagued with electrical problems, some like the adaptive cruise not cancelling are downright dangerous and it spent 45 days just in the first year at the dealer and they still have not fixed it. As we don't have the "Lemon Law" in Canada, I now have a legal action against kia Canada.
I bought my MX and the only issue I've had was the trailer lights didn't work. I called the service from the vehicle and some guy from Femont got on the line and checked all of the systems remotely and within 5 minutes identified that the trailer wiring harness was unplugged. All I had to do was remove the hitch cover and plug the harness in, problem solved, no need to visit the dealer.
There is not another vehicle on the market where you can get that type of service!
I'm now very skeptical of the CR reviews and the way they rate vehicles.