Did Tesla just de-tune my car?? (Death rattle gone)

[Mountainsnbird]

My 2020 MSLR went in for service for a wiper issue and was fixed no problem. When the service tech called to tell me the car was ready for pick up I asked if they solved the “death rattle” issues on raven models yet and that I was having this issue. He said no they have not found a permanent solution and to check back in the next few months. Okay, that’s what I’ll to then right? Well, I get my car back and no more rattle.
My car wasn’t a once and a while I get the rattle it was EVERY time, even at 3/4 acceleration I had a hard rattle. The frustrating part is the acceleration is not what it was. Before, it literally felt like your eyeballs were being sucked to the back of your skull now......meh
Am I nuts? Could this really be a possibility?

 

[whitex]

My 2020 MSLR went in for service for a wiper issue and was fixed no problem. When the service tech called to tell me the car was ready for pick up I asked if they solved the “death rattle” issues on raven models yet and that I was having this issue. He said no they have not found a permanent solution and to check back in the next few months. Okay, that’s what I’ll to then right? Well, I get my car back and no more rattle.
My car wasn’t a once and a while I get the rattle it was EVERY time, even at 3/4 acceleration I had a hard rattle. The frustrating part is the acceleration is not what it was. Before, it literally felt like your eyeballs were being sucked to the back of your skull now......meh
Am I nuts? Could this really be a possibility?

New conservative firmware maybe? Just like Tesla claimed that when they sold 691hp P85D that it was only theoretical motor power (car maxed out at 463hp), they can claim the acceleration or performance they sell on their current cars is only on delivery day, the day after they are free to limit it if it helps them avoid warranty issues. After latest update for my (old) 2015MS, I got into the car today with the car showing 64F in the garage and my regen was limited! Are you kidding me? This has never happened before when it's a nice 70F outside (garage is slightly cooler). Not to mention that the battery coolant pumps are doing overtime lately too while the car is just parked - so they are definitely f****ing with the battery management - maybe the old battery management head quit and they hired some new guy with a new philosophy on battery management? Or maybe the 8 year battery warranty is yielding too many claims costing too much to fix/replace. With Tesla you never know, they sneak stuff into updates all the time.

 

[Krash]

Hopefully neither of you are part of some randomized controlled trial.

If you record a performance run on iOS PowerTools or Android Dashboard for Tesla over the API I can probably tell you if the torque or max power changed by comparing it with some other user's dara. It is unlikely that the front to rear torque split would be the only change, which is one of the few things we couldn't see over the API. If you have CANBus logging hardware you can even see that split.

 

[Dmark86]

Was the vehicle switched to Chill Mode while in for repair by chance?

 

[SilverGS]

After latest update for my (old) 2015MS, I got into the car today with the car showing 64F in the garage and my regen was limited! Are you kidding me? This has never happened before when it's a nice 70F outside (garage is slightly cooler). Not to mention that the battery coolant pumps are doing overtime lately too while the car is just parked - so they are definitely f****ing with the battery management - maybe the old battery management head quit and they hired some new guy with a new philosophy on battery management? Or maybe the 8 year battery warranty is yielding too many claims costing too much to fix/replace. With Tesla you never know, they sneak stuff into updates all the time.

Mine has been like this since November last year. As soon as ambient temps hit around 50 to 65 F, regen is limited. I'm surprised yours only got impacted today.

I just pre-warm the car for 30 mins and I get full regen. Yes its not necessarily convenient, but I like the regen.

 

[Mountainsnbird]

Hopefully neither of you are part of some randomized controlled trial.

If you record a performance run on iOS PowerTools or Android Dashboard for Tesla over the API I can probably tell you if the torque or max power changed by comparing it with some other user's dara. It is unlikely that the front to rear torque split would be the only change, which is one of the few things we couldn't see over the API. If you have CANBus logging hardware you can even see that split.

I will try to capture this data.

 

[Mountainsnbird]

Was the vehicle switched to Chill Mode while in for repair by chance?

Wish this was the case.

 

[SilverGS]

Hopefully neither of you are part of some randomized controlled trial.

If you record a performance run on iOS PowerTools or Android Dashboard for Tesla over the API I can probably tell you if the torque or max power changed by comparing it with some other user's dara. It is unlikely that the front to rear torque split would be the only change, which is one of the few things we couldn't see over the API. If you have CANBus logging hardware you can even see that split.

Hi Krash, I installed Dashboard for Tesla - how can I send you the log file - I'd like to measure max power on my Uncorked 75D. Thanks.

 

[whitex]

Mine has been like this since November last year. As soon as ambient temps hit around 50 to 65 F, regen is limited. I'm surprised yours only got impacted today.

Oh, there is an explanation for that. I was rejecting updates on that car since mid October (on 2019.32.12.3) until a week ago when I finally got around to swapping out my emmc. The reason I couldn't update before was because the unused emmc partition was already dying, causing random and long reboots, and if I applied an update the car would switch to using that partition (Tesla alternates the partitions every OTA update). May 1st OpenVPN shudown deadline motivated me, COVID-19 lockdown provided me with extra time at home. I caught it almost too late (even the image on the current partition was already corrupt, but recoverable with some effort).

 

[Ciaopec]

If this "death rattle" occurred in an ICE vehicle and the engineers decided to change (detune) something in the engine or transmission software to fix the problem would you ever know? If this is Tesla's fix then what is to argue?. You either hate the rattle and accept the fix or hate the rattle and live with it. Or is that just too simplistic? Go for the cake and eat it too?

 

[Messagepads]

It seems a bit contradictory to purchase a Tesla and then complaint about the changes brought by the manufacturer updates.
This is one of the main characteristics of this brand, right?
I am not sure what this death rattle exactly is. For sure you won't get it in a Prius

 

[whitex]

If this "death rattle" occurred in an ICE vehicle and the engineers decided to change (detune) something in the engine or transmission software to fix the problem would you ever know? If this is Tesla's fix then what is to argue?. You either hate the rattle and accept the fix or hate the rattle and live with it. Or is that just too simplistic? Go for the cake and eat it too?

Yes, too simplistic. Imagine you take you ICE car to the shop because the suspension shakes at 65 mph, and they install a 60mph speed limiter on the car as the fix. Would you argue that it's a valid fix?

 

[Ciaopec]

Yes, too simplistic. Imagine you take you ICE car to the shop because the suspension shakes at 65 mph, and they install a 60mph speed limiter on the car as the fix. Would you argue that it's a valid fix?

I may not be happy with it but I am not the engineer designing the fix. Not a good one in your example to be sure. But if they do that to every car and that is their fix what are your options? Lawsuit? Maybe. IDK.

 

[whitex]

I may not be happy with it but I am not the engineer designing the fix. Not a good one in your example to be sure. But if they do that to every car and that is their fix what are your options? Lawsuit? Maybe. IDK.

Lawsuit is the last resource, but sometimes necessary if you have the patience and resources. Alternatively, or in addition to, just stop patronizing the manufacturer, i.e. don't buy any more of their product. What all these examples have in common is a product under warranty which no longer performs to original specifications. Imagine next time you go for service, they disable all your doors except for the driver's door because of some problem - maybe the retracting handles are breaking too often and costing too much under warranty, what would your recourse be? Or imagine you buy a house and 1 year later the builder comes, puts up a wall blocking the stairs going upstrairs and tells you the upstrairs is not safe to use due to some architecture error, so you must now live in the bottom half of the house only. Would you take that laying down, or sue?

 

[AMPd]

If this "death rattle" occurred in an ICE vehicle and the engineers decided to change (detune) something in the engine or transmission software to fix the problem would you ever know? If this is Tesla's fix then what is to argue?. You either hate the rattle and accept the fix or hate the rattle and live with it. Or is that just too simplistic? Go for the cake and eat it too?

Are you serious or joking? If it’s not a big deal then why does tesla charge more for a performance model? Why not throw it in for free it’s no biggie right?

 

[Canuck9000]

New conservative firmware maybe? Just like Tesla claimed that when they sold 691hp P85D that it was only theoretical motor power (car maxed out at 463hp), they can claim the acceleration or performance they sell on their current cars is only on delivery day, the day after they are free to limit it if it helps them avoid warranty issues. After latest update for my (old) 2015MS, I got into the car today with the car showing 64F in the garage and my regen was limited! Are you kidding me? This has never happened before when it's a nice 70F outside (garage is slightly cooler). Not to mention that the battery coolant pumps are doing overtime lately too while the car is just parked - so they are definitely f****ing with the battery management - maybe the old battery management head quit and they hired some new guy with a new philosophy on battery management? Or maybe the 8 year battery warranty is yielding too many claims costing too much to fix/replace. With Tesla you never know, they sneak stuff into updates all the time.

I have a pre-raven Model S P100d and have noticed some odd issues with early power drop off on launch mode acceleration runs. (Usually after 60mph it falls sharply). Coincidentally....this started after I got my half shafts replaced....and the new "cheetah mode" software was downloaded. Although i didn't get the extra power as the Ravens, it seems like the thermo management in ludicriuos ++ is causing the battery to overheat too quickly....and then it pulls power (only after one quick run) . I have sent videos to my Service center and they are having the Tesla techs review it. It could be a software bug or tesla is back to pulling power again?

 

[whitex]

I have a pre-raven Model S P100d and have noticed some odd issues with early power drop off on launch mode acceleration runs. (Usually after 60mph it falls sharply). Coincidentally....this started after I got my half shafts replaced....and the new "cheetah mode" software was downloaded. Although i didn't get the extra power as the Ravens, it seems like the thermo management in ludicriuos ++ is causing the battery to overheat too quickly....and then it pulls power (only after one quick run) . I have sent videos to my Service center and they are having the Tesla techs review it. It could be a software bug or tesla is back to pulling power again?

When they change battery software to give more power or more range, Elon tweets his heart out with pride. Then they hide stuff, it's safe to assume they are screwing with the customers (my first glimpse of that was when they disabled SAS in 2013 without even telling their service people). My car never ran coolant pumps almost around the clock in the past, it does now - it cools the battery so much that regen is limited in 70F weather! Acceleration also seems nerfed most of the time too, even if the power meter doesn't show limited power. How much do you want to bet that Tesla will give us all the middle finger when the coolant pumps start dying, telling how us how battery and drive unit warranty doesn't cover coolant pumps, like they told one member here about $1,200 DU gaskets he needed to pay for in order to replace the drive unit under warranty? By running the coolant pumps not designed to run around the clock, Tesla is simply alleviating their own warranty obligations by making customers pay for new pumps every however many months or years they last when running at such high duty cycle. Elon is an innovator, I just wish we would choose not to to innovate the car salesman model, as he's taking the "car salesman" stereotype to a whole new level.

PS> As a point of reference, I have 2 Model S in the same garage (both running latest firmware no). 2015 is running coolant pumps pretty much any time check on it, while the 2018 stays quiet except when charging.

 

[MichaelP90DL]

I may not be happy with it but I am not the engineer designing the fix. Not a good one in your example to be sure. But if they do that to every car and that is their fix what are your options? Lawsuit? Maybe. IDK.

When you're dealing with a big corporation, there are only a few ways to get their attention. One effective method is the lawsuit.

 

[BigNick]

When they change battery software to give more power or more range, Elon tweets his heart out with pride. Then they hide stuff, it's safe to assume they are screwing with the customers (my first glimpse of that was when they disabled SAS in 2013 without even telling their service people). My car never ran coolant pumps almost around the clock in the past, it does now - it cools the battery so much that regen is limited in 70F weather! Acceleration also seems nerfed most of the time too, even if the power meter doesn't show limited power. How much do you want to bet that Tesla will give us all the middle finger when the coolant pumps start dying, telling how us how battery and drive unit warranty doesn't cover coolant pumps, like they told one member here about $1,200 DU gaskets he needed to pay for in order to replace the drive unit under warranty? By running the coolant pumps not designed to run around the clock, Tesla is simply alleviating their own warranty obligations by making customers pay for new pumps every however many months or years they last when running at such high duty cycle. Elon is an innovator, I just wish we would choose not to to innovate the car salesman model, as he's taking the "car salesman" stereotype to a whole new level.

PS> As a point of reference, I have 2 Model S in the same garage (both running latest firmware no). 2015 is running coolant pumps pretty much any time check on it, while the 2018 stays quiet except when charging.

What we need is a group of wizard-level owners who are willing to disassemble each new version of firmware and publish the results. They would be protected by the GPL due to Tesla’s use of Linux.

It would unfortunately be a colossal time sink with very little to no personal benefit to them, however, the benefit would be to all Tesla owners as a group.

Tesla wouldn’t be able to pull half the crap they have pulled with a firmware watchdog group in place. At least not without some major exposure.

 

[whitex]

What we need is a group of wizard-level owners who are willing to disassemble each new version of firmware and publish the results. They would be protected by the GPL due to Tesla’s use of Linux.

It would unfortunately be a colossal time sink with very little to no personal benefit to them, however, the benefit would be to all Tesla owners as a group.

Tesla wouldn’t be able to pull half the crap they have pulled with a firmware watchdog group in place. At least not without some major exposure.

You are correct that it would not be of any value to the person doing it. The only way I see that happening is if you get enough people together for a class action, then collect money from them to buy a used Tesla for one of the hackers, plus pay them to provide the evidence. I'm sure you could find some talent who would love a free Tesla and a job, maybe somewhere in eastern Europe - they have some really smart guys out there who don't make a lot of money.

Personally I don't care about suing as it costs time and money while taking years. I could have sued Tesla over the 691hp - spoke with an attorney who told me I'd probably win, $15K in fees and couple of years down the road - I might even win the fees back, but honestly, not worth my time. Instead, I stopped buying more Teslas, and just like before I would tell anyone who'd listen to buy one, now I warn people, sometimes unknowingly. For example, I showed a couple of coworkers some pictures of my weekend replacing the emmc, explained how Tesla screwed the design on emmc logging utilization and how mine started failing just after the 4 year warranty and how I saved myself up to $3K doing it myself. I was really just killing time waiting for more people to join a conference call, but one of my coworkers summed it up well "Thank you from warning me about buying a Tesla". Why do I still have two? Well, can't find a good alternative and for the money I could get trading them in I'd rather just keep on driving them while fixing them myself. If they become too much of a hassle, I will buy something else (and yes, I am not a above buying a good ICE car, heck, I was going to buy a Model 3 for my son next month, instead I will probably just get him an ICE - he needs reliable transportation).