Did Tesla just de-tune my car?? (Death rattle gone)

[Chaserr]

There's already a class action underway over tesla de-tuning performance when they also de-tuned capacity over the Batterygate fires "fix" that they just hid by lowering battery voltage. That "fix" detuned literally every aspect of battery performance, and is explicitly illegal.

@Mountainsnbird See if you can charge to 4.2v per cell at 100%, if you've been capped it will also reduce capacity and was how Tesla went about the last big detune they're being sued for right now.

If you bought after the 2020 warranty changes, you might not be able to sue as easily. They added a section claiming they can remove as much as 30% of battery performance with software tweaks whenever they feel like it in January of this year.

 

[richrootes]

You are correct that it would not be of any value to the person doing it. The only way I see that happening is if you get enough people together for a class action, then collect money from them to buy a used Tesla for one of the hackers, plus pay them to provide the evidence. I'm sure you could find some talent who would love a free Tesla and a job, maybe somewhere in eastern Europe - they have some really smart guys out there who don't make a lot of money.

Personally I don't care about suing as it costs time and money while taking years. I could have sued Tesla over the 691hp - spoke with an attorney who told me I'd probably win, $15K in fees and couple of years down the road - I might even win the fees back, but honestly, not worth my time. Instead, I stopped buying more Teslas, and just like before I would tell anyone who'd listen to buy one, now I warn people, sometimes unknowingly. For example, I showed a couple of coworkers some pictures of my weekend replacing the emmc, explained how Tesla screwed the design on emmc logging utilization and how mine started failing just after the 4 year warranty and how I saved myself up to $3K doing it myself. I was really just killing time waiting for more people to join a conference call, but one of my coworkers summed it up well "Thank you from warning me about buying a Tesla". Why do I still have two? Well, can't find a good alternative and for the money I could get trading them in I'd rather just keep on driving them while fixing them myself. If they become too much of a hassle, I will buy something else (and yes, I am not a above buying a good ICE car, heck, I was going to buy a Model 3 for my son next month, instead I will probably just get him an ICE - he needs reliable transportation).

Tesla needs to start being very careful - there’s no worse enemy than someone who previously sang your praises from the rooftops, but then gets screwed over

I’m the same - from 2014 to 2019, I’d recommend buying a Tesla to anyone that would listen. Now, I’m pretty mute on the subject

I too am concerned about the pumps running constantly, especially if they’re not designed to do so. If they are warrantied, fine - if not, what can you do?

Hopefully this is just an interim fix until they acquire more data - then they can change the software again to make it shut down the pumps. It was 20C in my garage the other day, and I still had limited regen - this is not on

Cheers everyone

 

[Mo City]

This reminds me of a long while ago when I took my very-high-mileage car to a tune-up chain and had them change the transmission fluid (yeah, yeah, I know). From that moment forward, my transmission started slipping on a regular basis. Hard to explain but the car was driveable. It was maddening!

About a month later I took it to our regular mechanic to have something completely unrelated done.

No more slipping transmission. To this day I'm not sure what he did. All I know is he didn't charge for it.

 

[MichaelP90DL]

This reminds me of a long while ago when I took my very-high-mileage car to a tune-up chain and had them change the transmission fluid (yeah, yeah, I know). From that moment forward, my transmission started slipping on a regular basis. Hard to explain but the car was driveable. It was maddening!

About a month later I took it to our regular mechanic to have something completely unrelated done.

No more slipping transmission. To this day I'm not sure what he did. All I know is he didn't charge for it.

I suggest you do something really nice for that mechanic and/or crew. The guys at my local PC fix-it shop worked some miracles a few months ago. In addition to just paying the bill, I ordered in pizza for them.

 

[BigNick]

If you bought after the 2020 warranty changes, you might not be able to sue as easily. They added a section claiming they can remove as much as 30% of battery performance with software tweaks whenever they feel like it in January of this year.

Just because they write it, doesn’t make it legal. They could put something in there about you owing them your first born, that doesn’t mean they can do it. (Stupid example I know).

 

[whitex]

Just because they write it, doesn’t make it legal. They could put something in there about you owing them your first born, that doesn’t mean they can do it. (Stupid example I know).

Whether or not it's an enforceable clause (assuming the clause was already there when you purchased the car) will depend on particular jurisdiction. IANAL but I suspect it would hold up in a lot of places, since the customer had the chance to review it prior to purchase.

 

[AMPd]

There's already a class action underway over tesla de-tuning performance when they also de-tuned capacity over the Batterygate fires "fix" that they just hid by lowering battery voltage. That "fix" detuned literally every aspect of battery performance, and is explicitly illegal.

@Mountainsnbird See if you can charge to 4.2v per cell at 100%, if you've been capped it will also reduce capacity and was how Tesla went about the last big detune they're being sued for right now.

If you bought after the 2020 warranty changes, you might not be able to sue as easily. They added a section claiming they can remove as much as 30% of battery performance with software tweaks whenever they feel like it in January of this year.

Would range fall under the “battery performance” category?
If so then I’m gonna have to go ahead and move on from tesla. If they’re allowed to remove 30% of range by capping the battery then this whole 400 mile model s is complete bull****
Drive the car off the lot with a 400 mile range and the next day they can say oops we gotta tone it down to 370.. then to 350.. then 300. That’s ridiculous. If they now know the batteries can’t handle being charged to the current limit then nerf it from the start and don’t sell a 390 mile range model.
I’m already on the fence over what they did to the 85kwh packs, nerfing the battery to save themselves the cost of fixing their shortcomings. The fact is no one made the company offer such a nice warranty, they chose to do it in order to gain customers. To screw those customers later is shady

 

[Chaserr]

Range decrease is a side effect of Tesla reducing capacity by using a battery pack voltage cap. Volts are where everything involved in battery performance is derived, so horsepower is decreased as well as charge speed and probably more things I don't know about.

They have been doing it for a year already - the warranty change was just their attempt to retroactively make it legal since they are under federal investigation and class action discovery is imminent. The news is going to come out sooner or later, and they can try to claim "it was in the warranty! (a year after we did it)"

 

[AMPd]

Range decrease is a side effect of Tesla reducing capacity by using a battery pack voltage cap. Volts are where everything involved in battery performance is derived, so horsepower is decreased as well as charge speed and probably more things I don't know about.

They have been doing it for a year already - the warranty change was just their attempt to retroactively make it legal since they are under federal investigation and class action discovery is imminent. The news is going to come out sooner or later, and they can try to claim "it was in the warranty! (a year after we did it)"

I’m not very knowledgeable when it comes to battery technology, but wouldn’t it be best to just reduce the battery voltage cap from the start? Sure the car will be slower and come with less range but at least then you’re selling an honest product.
selling a product that they know they will have to alter in a negative way in the future seems dishonest.
But I guess tesla is too far down the “profit at all costs” road to turn back now.

 

[Chaserr]

Yes, and that's the only legal way to do it too. Every other company caps batteries from the start and Tesla themselves told us they had to cap volts before selling them to us for many reasons. But capped batteries don't have quite as impressive numbers, so they break the law and cap post-sale instead. They think they can break the law whenever they feel like it because they haven't been punished yet. It's coming.

 

[BigNick]

Edit: removed my post which was essentially a duplicate.

Chaserr beat me to it and even posted the link to the article I had been referring to.

 

[AMPd]

Yes, and that's the only legal way to do it too. Every other company caps batteries from the start and Tesla themselves told us they had to cap volts before selling them to us for many reasons. But capped batteries don't have quite as impressive numbers, so they break the law and cap post-sale instead. They think they can break the law whenever they feel like it because they haven't been punished yet. It's coming.

That’s unfortunate really, very short sighted imo.

 

[whitex]

wouldn’t it be best to just reduce the battery voltage cap from the start?

Best for whom? Customers, yes. Tesla legal, yes. Tesla marketing, no. Elon's ego, not at all.

Derating batteries is what all the competition does, such as Porche Taycan or Audi eTron. Funny thing, Tesla fanboys mock the competition for not pushing the bleeding edge like Tesla, so maybe they deserve what they asked for, push the technology to the bleeding edge, kill reliability.

 

[sorka]

My 2020 MSLR went in for service for a wiper issue and was fixed no problem. When the service tech called to tell me the car was ready for pick up I asked if they solved the “death rattle” issues on raven models yet and that I was having this issue. He said no they have not found a permanent solution and to check back in the next few months. Okay, that’s what I’ll to then right? Well, I get my car back and no more rattle.
My car wasn’t a once and a while I get the rattle it was EVERY time, even at 3/4 acceleration I had a hard rattle. The frustrating part is the acceleration is not what it was. Before, it literally felt like your eyeballs were being sucked to the back of your skull now......meh
Am I nuts? Could this really be a possibility?

I heard from one of the techs a few months ago that they they "heard" that a future update to be released soon would dramatically limit power if your air suspension is not on lowest.

 

[BigNick]

I heard from one of the techs a few months ago that they they "heard" that a future update to be released soon would dramatically limit power if your air suspension is not on lowest.

For launch mode this makes sense, maybe using Insane+ or Ludicrous+ should auto-lower the SAS? Kind of like cheetah mode?

 

[sorka]

I may not be happy with it but I am not the engineer designing the fix. Not a good one in your example to be sure. But if they do that to every car and that is their fix what are your options? Lawsuit? Maybe. IDK.

I think the key thing here is that NO engineer is designing ANY fix

 

[sorka]

My death rattle has now been gone for 44K miles since I lowered the car 1" at 70K miles. Previous to that, 4 cv shaft replacements did not fix the issue.

In 2014, the MS with air suspension was raised 1" via software to try and reduce risks associated with battery strikes. I'm convinced this additional 3.6 degree bend on the cv joint is the ultimate cause of why this thing started showing up on so many cars since early 2015.

 

[AMPd]

Best for whom? Customers, yes. Tesla legal, yes. Tesla marketing, no. Elon's ego, not at all.

Derating batteries is what all the competition does, such as Porche Taycan or Audi eTron. Funny thing, Tesla fanboys mock the competition for not pushing the bleeding edge like Tesla, so maybe they deserve what they asked for, push the technology to the bleeding edge, kill reliability.

Best for customers but also best for Tesla in the long run.
I’m totally fine with normal battery degradation, that’s to be expected. But I just can’t get past the fact that tesla can come in and alter my vehicle. It’s like buying a house knowing the previous owner can come back and rearrange your furniture along with taking whatever they want. Frustrating.

 

[Pruitt]

Even before the 85 kw battery debacle, Tesla sneaked down the charge rates on the 90's by about 20%, and extended the taper drastically. On a long road trip I now spend roughly one third of my time at superchargers! That's about twice the amount of time I used to spend, and is certainly not how they characterized long distance travel in the vehicle.

Now, being an engineer myself, I understand that new applications of technology (and lithium-Ion batteries with silicone in the chemistry was brand new in Tesla's application) can uncover totally unanticipated behaviors that may require adjustments to performance, which is apparently what happened that led Tesla to degrade the charging characteristics of my car. But tell the owner what and why! It came out, finally, in bits and pieces, but Tesla never really explained fully the changes they made.

I don't understand the underhanded approach Tesla uses when they learn something new about their batteries. They sneak in a change to their cars' behavior (always some sort of reduction in capability, it seems) without notification, and don't even mention the imposed degradation in the update release notes.

I still love to drive the car, but I don't recommend Tesla to anyone anymore, and I will not purchase another one. Tesla has essentially thumbed their nose at all owners who purchased in at least the first four years of production, and maybe more.

(the more rabid fanbois will hate this post)

 

[whitex]

Best for customers but also best for Tesla in the long run.

You know, I'm not so sure anymore. Tesla business model focuses on new customers, and dreamers to whom Elon can sell vaporware and hype. Maybe Elon will continue to keep finding new customers willing to give him many thousands of dollars for a dream. People don't seem to learn every time he doesn't deliver or delivers something completely underwhelming - they keep making excuses how it's going to be different with the current hype he's selling. He sold people 60 and 85KWh batteries, turned out that was a lie (even if you include the brick buffer). He sold a 691hp P85D, never delivered on that either. He sold AP1 which was supposed to find me anywhere on private property, never happened. He sold people FSD (the pre-march-2019 description) where the car can drive your friends and family around while they enjoy movies on the back seat, or the car will be making money for you while driving for Tesla's version of Uber) that will also never happen for people who paid for it. Yet, people continue to buy his hype.

Maybe their business model really is "selling dreams", like a lottery (though not regulated by any gaming laws, so customer odds are not guaranteed at all). Elon is really good at science fiction, sell dreams which seem plausible - lie fake news and urban legends. How long before Elon starts selling the flying car, which for now you will have to drive on the ground yoursel, but some day some over the air update will enable it to drive and fly all by itself! How much would you pay for a car which can drive and fly your kids to school and other activities, and whenever you don't use it will make money for you? So really Tesla will pay you to own that car, just not today of course, but some day "soon" which nobody can predict when. Remember Elon's claim that each Model 3 will be worth over $300K this year? You know well there are people who believed him too. Any fanboys left out there willing to place orders with me to make some major money? I will sell you however many you want for only $200K each, as long as you prepay now, take delivery by end of the year. ROFL.