Disappointing service center policy (or non-policy) for Roadster owners...

[ElectricLove]

So basically you're suggesting that some Tesla owners imply that the dealership model would be better, even though you don't want that, because it would make 'a good story'? And you think it's a good idea to threaten Tesla with something that isn't true, because the inevitable bad press would be something Tesla would want to avoid?

That's like someone photoshopping compromising pics of you & telling you you have to do what they want, or they'll publish the pics. I don't see how this is a good plan.

And to be perfectly clear, I think repair and direct sell are two different issues. Using one to force what you want with the other makes me feel extremely uncomfortable. Like a 'you can't see your kid this weekend because you haven't paid support'. Two different things that should not be tied together. Right to parts and repair manuals, etc. should be fought on its merits. Not tied to another cause just to get your way. And if Tesla were to lose the dealership war because of something like this, then we aLL pay.

Unintended consequences and all that.

Based on the future-forward issue of long-term servicing of these vehicles I think perhaps the dealership model is superior, I am finding out first hand how it protects consumer interests, if it raises the price of each vehicle by a few grand (I have no idea what impact it would have, just spit-balling) then I would be ok with that because I think the consumer will be better protected. The dealerships have to follow regulations and those regulations are in place to protect consumers. One interesting thing I learned in the past with some of my DIY electric vehicles is that dealerships are required to service cars that are modified, even to the extent that their engines were removed and an electric drive-train was put in place (of course they don't have to service or warranty any non OEM parts but the OEM stuff still has to be serviced/warrantied). A really good example of this is the Ford Transit Connect Electric saga, a 3rd party company (Azure Dynamics) bought the gliders from Ford and built them out as electric vehicles. I purchased one, without title, from the bankruptcy auction in Michigan for the Azure factory; mine had NO FMVSS stickers or a registered VIN and it was a heavily modified Ford vehicle... Did this mean Ford wouldn't work on it? Absolutely not, as a reputable auto manufacturer they allowed me to file for an official VIN registration through them, they certified it for FMVSS themselves and honored their warranty on every Ford OEM part on that vehicle... This is what a REAL automaker does, Ford has been in the business for many decades and young silicon-valley snob companies like Tesla "should" be following their lead (in terms of "good" consumer protection procedures/policies, not necessarily everything). Ford doesn't have an interest in keeping their vehicles off the road, why does Tesla? Ford didn't make me do any sort of "extra" inspection (beyond the Level 3 inspection from state of Arizona), why does Tesla?

My vehicle has been inspected by the state of Arizona and found to be in compliance with FMVSS and NHTSA, it is legal to drive it and it carries a VIN and manufacturing record from Tesla, it would certainly be in their best interest to service it so it can be the best Tesla possible...

 

[deonb]

So basically you're suggesting that some Tesla owners imply that the dealership model would be better, even though you don't want that, because it would make 'a good story'? And you think it's a good idea to threaten Tesla with something that isn't true, because the inevitable bad press would be something Tesla would want to avoid?

That's like someone photoshopping compromising pics of you & telling you you have to do what they want, or they'll publish the pics. I don't see how this is a good plan.

And to be perfectly clear, I think repair and direct sell are two different issues.

You're right.

I'd prefer the dealership model for repairs, and the direct model for sales. So yes, when I say I don't actually want the dealer model, I mean sales. I would actually not mind a model where Tesla would sell & warranty the car, but you can go to e.g. any Mercedes Benz service location to actually have service performed on it. And then various dealers & mechanics will compete against each other, which mean free access to parts and information.

Two different things that should not be tied together. Right to parts and repair manuals, etc. should be fought on its merits. Not tied to another cause just to get your way.

Unfortunately I don't think Tesla will ever be incentivized to change this without press involvement. Maybe losing a few points by Consumer Reports would also do it.

I guess I'm just disappointed that Tesla made such a big deal about the car having fewer parts that need servicing, running service centers without a profit motive, and supposedly having a great overall service experience, and we end up with the most expensive sub $150k-vehicle service on the market, and an average service experience that's declining over time.

That, and we were suppose to be getting lots of apps & hardware retrofitting throughout the lifecycle of the vehicle to keep it current (ala. no Model years). I understand why we don't have this (Tesla didn't realize what it takes to release an API and App Store), but we can't even retrofit anything ourselves because nobody else can work on the vehicle.

 

[ElectricLove]

While I have some sympathy for your situation, I think you're fighting for a chance to become their customer. You have a salvage vehicle & your signature doesn't indicate you own any other Tesla products. In your specific case, how are they bullying their customer?

I own a Tesla, how am I not their customer? I have several receipts from the Tesla store in Scottsdale where I spent money on Tesla merchandise, how am I not their customer? I have also spent several thousand dollars on parts from Tesla for my car, how am I not their customer? (EDIT: And I am only asking to pay them hundreds/thousand MORE for them to perform simple services on my vehicle, I'm trying my best to be their customer, they don't seem to want to allow me to do so)

Certainly, we can all agree, the most likely buyer of a Tesla is one who already owns one, how many Roadster owners end up buying a Model S? How many intend to buy a Model X, Model 3, etc? Just because I wasn't the guy/gal to originally hand over money to Tesla to buy their vehicle directly from them doesn't mean I am not their customer and if it does I think they should formally announce that so everyone who ever wants to buy a used Tesla knows they probably should look for something else, like from any other automaker, who will consider you their customer on the merit that you own and drive one of their vehicles...

- - - Updated - - -

Unfortunately I don't think Tesla will ever be incentivized to change this without press involvement. Maybe losing a few points by Consumer Reports would also do it.

I guess I'm just disappointed that Tesla made such a big deal about the car having fewer parts that need servicing, running service centers without a profit motive, and supposedly having a great overall service experience, and we end up with the most expensive sub $150k-vehicle service on the market, and an average service experience that's declining over time.

That, and we were suppose to be getting lots of apps & hardware retrofitting throughout the lifecycle of the vehicle to keep it current (ala. no Model years). I understand why we don't have this (Tesla didn't realize what it takes to release an API and App Store), but we can't even retrofit anything ourselves because nobody else can work on the vehicle.[/QUOTE]

I have already contacted consumer reports and hopefully that will have the potential to turn some heads. The idea of Tesla vehicles being more difficult to have serviced (based on limited service availability, higher service costs and Tesla policy to block service altogether when they feel like it) is something future buyers should be aware of... It's one thing to build a great car and it is another to build a great service system, Tesla has nailed one of these but not the other, at this point...

 

[bonnie]

I think you missed my post above, showing that all automakers are going in this direction. Perhaps your fight should be on a broader scale?

 

[ElectricLove]

I think you missed my post above, showing that all automakers are going in this direction. Perhaps your fight should be on a broader scale?

I know they are trying and they have in the past which led to the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, when they were trying to get out of warranting vehicles if they were modified in any way, it was deemed illegal back then and this law is still in place on a federal level. I think it has clear implications in any consumer-automanufacturer dispute and relationship.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I'm just going to put it out there. I have seen a couple of cases of Tesla avoiding touching salvage vehicles. I remember one even tried to get it to blow up in the media. However, it hasn't. I think it largely has to do with the fact that the general public largely do not care about the plight of people wanting to restore salvage vehicles. So from Tesla's perspective they have very little to gain compared to the risks.

For a low volume product like the Roadster, I can see why they don't even have a program for it. Whatever parts they have is far better used for non-salvage vehicles (it might even be in short supply for them), esp. first owners.

 

[ElectricLove]

Here is another question, what would Tesla do if there was a safety recall in place for the Roadster? Would they still refuse service if it is salvage titled?

 

[stopcrazypp]

Here is another question, what would Tesla do if there was a safety recall in place for the Roadster? Would they still refuse service if it is salvage titled?

I would imagine safety recalls still apply to salvage vehicles (assuming there is a law in the books). However, googling it, there are plenty of dealers who will not honor recalls for salvage vehicles (which goes to show they are not the holy grail people like to trot out in the subject matter of servicing).

 

[hcsharp]

I'm just going to put it out there. I have seen a couple of cases of Tesla avoiding touching salvage vehicles. I remember one even tried to get it to blow up in the media. However, it hasn't. I think it largely has to do with the fact that the general public largely do not care about the plight of people wanting to restore salvage vehicles. So from Tesla's perspective they have very little to gain compared to the risks.

For a low volume product like the Roadster, I can see why they don't even have a program for it. Whatever parts they have is far better used for non-salvage vehicles (it might even be in short supply for them), esp. first owners.

I don't believe in ElectricLove's case that Tesla has "very little to gain compared to the risks." In his case I think they have much higher risk by not working on his car. Our vehicles can be dangerous in the wrong hands. That's why Tesla should not force it to be in the wrong hands. He has offered to pay them to inspect it, or have an inspection performed by a third party. Don't forget that if this was a Model S they would be working on his car. It's not just a case of a bad policy, it's a case of no policy so they default to doing nothing (which I guess is a bad policy).

I think blowing it up in the media is a bad idea, though. It won't work and will do more harm than good. Tesla needs to do the right thing for the right reason, not the wrong reason.

 

[qwk]

Like the above posters, I hate dealerships too, but am starting to see a major benefit. Elon talks about how great this or that is, but in the end, Tesla does the opposite of what Elon says. This has been going on since the beginning.

It isn't that difficult to do the right thing from the get go....especially after all the boasting, but instead Tesla waits until there is outrage and backlash before they eventually do the right thing. This creates a ton of ill-will towards Tesla supporters, and who knows how much money they lose by resorting to these tricks.

If Tesla wants to be better at this or that, they just need to do it, and skip the BS. Nobody wants to be tricked, and this behavior got old a few years back.

 

[Mark77a]

I think blowing it up in the media is a bad idea, though. It won't work and will do more harm than good. Tesla needs to do the right thing for the right reason, not the wrong reason.

I agree - Kevin Sharpe tried this in the UK and it did him and his car no good at all, losing goodwill from Tesla (and fellow roadster owners) as well as de-valuing his car.
Whilst I agree it looks like the OP has had disappointing service from Tesla, maybe, like Kevin, a subtle change in attitude/righteousness may be a more pragmatic route to getting the desired service / help ??

For example, bearing in mind that companies are basically groups of people, and so by treating individuals as you'd like to be treated, with respectful requests rather than demands - generally gets best results and is generally a more rewarding experience than conflicts and threats, media, legal or whatever. Maybe another service centre should be tried ? Maybe an off the record chat with a tesla technician ?

In the long run all roadsters will be out of warrantee, many already are, and unless manuals, software and parts are freely available, owners will have to rely on Tesla... like birth & Death its a fact of life !
My approach will be to 'keep in' with Tesla as I'm sure I will need their help in the future - so far this has not been at all difficult, every Tesla tech I've met has been super customer focused, and happy to freely share knowledge, and full of enthusiasm for both Tesla and my car.

 

[BrianC]

every Tesla tech I've met has been super customer focused, and happy to freely share knowledge, and full of enthusiasm for both Tesla and my car.

Unless you buy a salvaged car that is.

I don't care what kind of excuse they want to put out to customers, they want to have this business model and thats 100% ok with me. But, they better fix the car when someone needs it done.

 

[sethr]

I am finding this thread quite interesting. When I was in the process of purchasing my C.P.O. Roadster two years ago, mistakes were found on the paperwork that signed it over from the original owner to Tesla to enter the C.P.O. program, making it look like it was a salvage car when it wasn't. At first I was told by Virginia D.M.V. I would have to go through the process of titling a salvaged car, and almost started on that. Tesla VERY QUICKLY sent documents to both me and the D.M.V., got on the phone and straightened it out, certifying that it was not a salvage, (though I had to go to the D.M.V. three times with various documents from Tesla to satisfy them about the whole mess). Now I wonder about the whole thing....

 

[Auzie]

I agree - Kevin Sharpe tried this in the UK and it did him and his car no good at all, losing goodwill from Tesla (and fellow roadster owners) as well as de-valuing his car.
Whilst I agree it looks like the OP has had disappointing service from Tesla, maybe, like Kevin, a subtle change in attitude/righteousness may be a more pragmatic route to getting the desired service / help ??

For example, bearing in mind that companies are basically groups of people, and so by treating individuals as you'd like to be treated, with respectful requests rather than demands - generally gets best results and is generally a more rewarding experience than conflicts and threats, media, legal or whatever. Maybe another service centre should be tried ? Maybe an off the record chat with a tesla technician ?

In the long run all roadsters will be out of warrantee, many already are, and unless manuals, software and parts are freely available, owners will have to rely on Tesla... like birth & Death its a fact of life !
My approach will be to 'keep in' with Tesla as I'm sure I will need their help in the future - so far this has not been at all difficult, every Tesla tech I've met has been super customer focused, and happy to freely share knowledge, and full of enthusiasm for both Tesla and my car.

I keep a watch for disgruntled customers from an investor's perspective. All the smart analysts, Tesla and CEO's communications do not have the same power to mark the investment value and to advocate for/against the business as the customers have, at least for me.

It seems to me from reading this thread that OP is quite reasonable and respectful in his asking for a service. I did not get an impression that OP put any demands to Tesla, at least it does not come across that way to me.

It appears from this story that the safest thing to do is to not buy a salvage Roadster as a buyer will be left stranded with no where to go. That might have an impact on roadworthy Roadsters resale values.

When consumers deal with large companies on a one to one basis, the balance of power is heavily tilted against the consumer, as it appears to be in this case. As an attempt to level the playing field a bit, the disgruntled consumers might resort to publicity if that is the only recourse left to them.

If Tesla chooses not to support salvage cars and this particular customer, the right thing to do would be to publicly state their policy to that effect. A lot of ill will and bad publicity is likely to be avoided if people know upfront of purchase decision where they stand.

 

[dsm363]

Definitely agree that if Tesla will not support salvage titles they should say so. That way people know what they are getting into.

 

[Doug_G]

When consumers deal with large companies on a one to one basis, the balance of power is heavily tilted against the consumer, as it appears to be in this case. As an attempt to level the playing field a bit, the disgruntled consumers might resort to publicity if that is the only recourse left to them.

On the other hand, a court is highly likely to side with an individual over a company...

 

[Auzie]

A decision to let all these beautiful cars disappear off the roads through accidents would be a terrible disappointment on many levels.

If one of these beautiful cars gets involved in an accident bad enough to turn the car into a salvage, that would mean a certain death by a refusal of service.

Roadsters deserve something akin to 'protected species' treatment by Tesla. Special service for a very special car.

 

[Botbldr45]

Since I will be using the Scottsdale Service Center in the near future I am concerned by this report. I have had excellant service at the Rockville Service Center in MD for three years and the DC Service Center before that on my Roadster. Anybody from AZ want to comment on The Scottsdale Service Center VS the Roadster.

 

[ElectricLove]

So, I have heard back from the "higher ups" in Tesla who say they will allow me to give them $1,200 (plus another $1,500 if they have to dig deeper) for them to have a 3rd party inspect my car, if it passes this inspection then it should be serviceable by them. Basically they are saying they are going to apply the same policy as the Model S, however they don't have any formal inspection documents and can't provide me with a list of what is going to be inspected (since they haven't done one of these inspections before). I am trying to get more details but as usual the Scottsdale Service guys (specifically the service manager) are very slow to respond; he is the only service representative of any company I've dealt with that doesn't get back to me for a days or even weeks and said to me once "I don't really have a good reason for that, sorry". So, we'll see what happens, I don't trust them at this point and so I don't want to take my car for this expensive inspection until they tell me exactly what is going to be inspected, I don't want to fail their inspection because of something I didn't think was important (especially when the manager told me he doesn't think my car would pass based on a few cosmetic issues).

I'll keep this thread posted on what transpires, hopefully in the end this will work out but I am still disgruntled and disappointed that Tesla is making the process so much more difficult than it needs to be, I'm concerned that when they think they are selling cars to the "common man" with the Model 3 they won't have any idea that the "common man" isn't going to find a $1,200-2,700 "inspection" reasonable, in the least. Nor will the "common man" find the repair costs for any non-warranty work done by Tesla reasonable (I've heard horror stories of $2,000 12V fan replacements and the like).

 

[Auzie]

So, I have heard back from the "higher ups" in Tesla who say they will allow me to give them $1,200 (plus another $1,500 if they have to dig deeper) for them to have a 3rd party inspect my car, if it passes this inspection then it should be serviceable by them. Basically they are saying they are going to apply the same policy as the Model S

That looks like a great progress to me. Tesla is willing to provide a service that you asked for, that was previously unavailable. Reason to celebrate.:smile:

however they don't have any formal inspection documents and can't provide me with a list of what is going to be inspected (since they haven't done one of these inspections before).

That just tells us that they will go out of their way to develop a new service, in order not to leave you stranded. I'd feel really special if I got such service:smile:

I am trying to get more details but as usual the Scottsdale Service guys (specifically the service manager) are very slow to respond; he is the only service representative of any company I've dealt with that doesn't get back to me for a days or even weeks and said to me once "I don't really have a good reason for that, sorry". So, we'll see what happens, I don't trust them at this point and so I don't want to take my car for this expensive inspection until they tell me exactly what is going to be inspected, I don't want to fail their inspection because of something I didn't think was important (especially when the manager told me he doesn't think my car would pass based on a few cosmetic issues).

Most likely the person is slow to respond because he is not sure how to respond, this is likely uncharted territory for him, and he may be waiting for someone to help him with the correct response re Tesla policy for cases like yours. It might not be in his power to act as he wishes.

It is not a fair playing field to bring the person's name in this story as he can not come here and give his side of the story and this issue is most likely outside of his pay grade.

I'll keep this thread posted on what transpires, hopefully in the end this will work out but I am still disgruntled and disappointed that Tesla is making the process so much more difficult than it needs to be.

Tesla is not 'making it difficult', it is inherently difficult to grow a new different disruptive business against the odds, keep serving customers and keep developing and learning how best to do that and keep the business a going concern.

I'm concerned that when they think they are selling cars to the "common man" with the Model 3 they won't have any idea that the "common man" isn't going to find a $1,200-2,700 "inspection" reasonable, in the least. Nor will the "common man" find the repair costs for any non-warranty work done by Tesla reasonable (I've heard horror stories of $2,000 12V fan replacements and the like).

It is reasonable to argue the cost of repairs. Salvaged Roadster is an uncommon car, hence the cost of inspection and repair that is tailored to these uncommon customers reflects the tailor developed service, especially for you. People providing the service do not have their work mapped out for them, they are learning as they go, and that costs more than the service that is fully mapped out.

My view is that the opportunity to have your uncommon beautiful car revived and back on the road is worth the cost, but you might disagree and you are free to act accordingly.

I highly doubt that posting your disagreement on inspection/repair cost here will have an effect on dropping the stated price, however that is a valuable data point for other people who might consider buying the salvage Roadster.

It would be great to see some picks of that sleeping beauty that is waiting for a kiss of life :smile: