I had a generator first, 22kw. Without some crazy stuff, I never would have bought batteries, and do not recommend them to folks, unless they have money to burn. After 3 years, I have yet to use the generator, let alone the batteries, but the tech is fun, BUT, it is not free to use.
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Discussion: Powerwall 3 [Speculation / Discussion etc]
- Thread starter n.one.one
- Start date
I think I mentioned this in the other thread, but I wouldn't say "more difficult", I'd go with "generally impossible and not supported". I wouldn't expect any integration with a generator with a PW at this time unless they actually come out and advertise it and sell it as such. It'd be separate units.
My problem with generators, wind power and all that stuff is a lot more moving parts vs. solar and batteries. Moving parts means more maintenance, things are easier to break, etc...
If you really lose power for long stretches and no sun, (eg. a simple thing like a fire (too much smoke) that's so common now all over), a generator provides FAR better resiliency IMO. Or, just get everything if $$ is less of a concern. I keep saying here that I went in assuming zero ROI and am still happy to have it and would do it all over again. People waste more $$ on many other things in life really so depends on you.
TLDR - Bottom line is if you need a generator, expect 0 integration with a PW. I don't even expect V2H to work with my current EQ even though that's on the roadmap/company. You really should get Enphase quotes I feel since the cost isn't anymore. My 2x batteries were in your ballpark price (less kWh though), but I had SGIP.
Who cares about a generator and PW's? meaning who in their right might would ever want to charge a PW from a generator. I have them both and never.
If I lose power, the first thing I do is turn off my heat pumps, to the bare minimum. These use 95% of my electricity use. I would not run the washing machine, electric driver, microwave, etc while on batteries. If the solar is not charging worth beans, then I would turn off the PW's, so they do not go to zero, which by the ATS's, turns on the generator for the entire. But, I only run this at breakfast, lunch and dinner when needed, then I turn it off!!
So, not sure why folks are even concerned, to me, makes zero logical sense to want to do. Generators are noisy
Two quite different/contrasting views; both are greatly appreciated.
@sunwarroriors, I now understand the issue with bidirectional chargers (V2H) and am disappointed in the industry for not making this a reality beyond Nissan Leaf.
I’ve been looking at more content on YouTube and will continue to do so.
SHIP is something I’ll have to investigate but ultimately the product available depends largely upon what local installers offer.
So far, I trust the outfit that installed my solar panels that are offering SunVault, at the low end of anticipated cost.
I’ll meet with Tesla on Tuesday to evaluate PW, presumably PW2.
I suppose I can locate an Enphase installer from its website?
@sunwarroriors, I now understand the issue with bidirectional chargers (V2H) and am disappointed in the industry for not making this a reality beyond Nissan Leaf.
I’ve been looking at more content on YouTube and will continue to do so.
SHIP is something I’ll have to investigate but ultimately the product available depends largely upon what local installers offer.
So far, I trust the outfit that installed my solar panels that are offering SunVault, at the low end of anticipated cost.
I’ll meet with Tesla on Tuesday to evaluate PW, presumably PW2.
I suppose I can locate an Enphase installer from its website?
Seems like helpful info but difficult to decipher. You have PW and generator.
You turn off high draw appliances when grid is down.
What makes zero sense?
Generator?
Not needed?
Why. In the winter I use 40 to 60 kwh per day for heating. With clouds, I might make 5wh for the entire day. Do the math, how long with a PW last before it is empty?
I just have multiple levels of backup if the grid goes out. Dumb yep, but I never ever have to worry about running out of suds
You can always use a natural gas generator assuming your house / part of the county has a gas line.
You also need to consider the annual maintenance for the generator. You don’t just get it installed and never touch it again, unlike the battery solution (for the most part.)
Right. Understood. Propane costs money. I use it to heat my home in the winter and pool in the summer. And then there is, as you point out, maintenance, not to mention the aesthetics of a large generator (and tank) adjacent to my house.
The only reason I would need that much power (generator plus batteries) would be to run the AC at night and during overcast days AND when grid is down.
Otherwise, when the sun shines, I can cool my home and hope the insulation keeps it cool through the night.
Maybe add a mini split in our bedroom that could be tied to the batteries?
And if that doesn’t work, then install a generator.
Mostly, I prefer the battery option over the generator because I’ll still be able to draw from the sun when it shines without any additional cost.
I understand my confusion. I see now that you use electric to heat you home. I have an in ground propane tank for heat. Unfortunately, to run central air, a generator would need to be located on the other side of our home from the existing propane tank, necessitating a second tank, likely buried because it would otherwise undercut the point of our landscaping and just look ugly.
So the really, really expensive draw (necessity?) is having central air at night.
Although I suppose a power outage extending through several days of heavy cloud coverage (or smoke) could create the need for a generator to keep our home warm if the batteries drain and thus can’t support basic power needs for our propane heating.
Then we would be forced to do what we have done for 18 years - candles and wood burning stove (which requires wood delivered, stacked, and stored).
My use case for the generator is assuming lots of smoke, clouds and no power for long stretches, you can charge batteries during the day when noise is less/not a concern for anyone vs. having them run over night.
Remember, we're in a situation of zero solar for multiple days/weeks so for most folks, after 1-2 day assuming your batteries are dead, they are never going to charge back up. A single energy source is never going to work IMO for any kind of disaster situation.
I think the general idea is if it's a worst case scenario, people aren't going to be expected to run AC at night. I do have a small 1kW unit that can run for 1 room, but that's basic survival to maybe if it's so hot that lives are at risk.
You may have 7 PWs and can last a long while, but for a lot of folks with 1-3 batteries, that's still not going to last long if you have a week+ long outage. At the end of the day, it's only $$, but it's easy for a guy with 7 PWs and a generator to say they are both useless. Look at Maui, power may not be back for weeks/months in some places (assuming your home survived). Even in CA, we've had some examples posted here where it took multiple weeks/month to get back online.
I think you meant SGIP? That's purely a CA thing so won't apply probably in your own state.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
I’m in the central CA Sierra foothills and have had some summers recently with intense smoke inundation from nearby fires. ~11kw of solar and 2 powerwalls. Even on the worst smoky day, I’ve never had ZERO solar production. A non-negligible amount of sunlight filters through - generally enough that I’m confident my PV and powerwalls could meet my essential life and safety needs in most scenarios (at the bare minimum running our fridges and freezers, lights, and a small HVAC unit if necessary). It wouldn’t be luxury living, but enough of an edge case that integrating a generator isn’t an investment that seems warranted.
It’s really the event itself you’ve got to ride out, and generally that’s days, not weeks. Once the (literal) smoke clears, even if it’s weeks/months before infrastructure is restored, a PV/battery system is going to do everything you need it to.
It’s really the event itself you’ve got to ride out, and generally that’s days, not weeks. Once the (literal) smoke clears, even if it’s weeks/months before infrastructure is restored, a PV/battery system is going to do everything you need it to.
Glad to hear.
That is my goal.
2 PWs or SunVault and manage with whatever production we get from our panels.
I will likely add a mini split in our bedroom for the muggy nights here in southeastern Pennsylvania and hope we generate enough to use that AC unit.
CrazyRabbit
Active Member
Most would not need it real life, if ones maybe does the calculations. I know I did not but it was too late, already wired
CrazyRabbit
Active Member
Back on topic, I would like Powerwall 3 to have a optional heat pump cooling loop, external heat pump. One cooling/heat loop to do all powerwalls.
CrazyRabbit
Active Member
Agree. I did the calculation and consolidated all my loads into one larger panel to get by with one gateway. But Tesla needs two gateways, 400 amp and 200 amp.
Your installation would have been cleaner with all powerwalls on one system. Plus up to 20 powerwalls on one system! I’m still waiting for you to add 5 more powerwalls!
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