Discussion: Powerwall 3 [Speculation / Discussion etc]

[andy92782]

Because the NEC requires it. Any metal water pipe buried in the ground for 10' or more is a grounding electrode. All electrodes present have to be bonded together to become the premises grounding electrode system.

There's probably no way around this, then. The system is installed within a few feet of a garden hose bibb/pipe but I'm guessing that isn't routed underground but rather through the home itself. No way to tell easily, anyway.

We'll work with Tesla to get the ground wire routed in a more aesthetically pleasing manner.

 

[mongo]

My understanding is there are/were two inverters in the system. One for the powerwalls and one for the entire system. With a powerwall + they installed two units. One unit is the battery/storage and one is the inverter that is for the powerwall. Then there is an other inverter for the entire system. With the Powerwall 3 there is only one unit for the Powerwall. I am guessing it's because they now are fed with DC voltage. They probably have an internal DC to DC converter. My question is are the most often failed inverters the whole system inverter or the Powerwall+ inverter?

There are still two inverters. Battery inverter is isolated, solar is not.

 

[Daniel Kaiser]

Is it possible, this is just not PW3 but another PW2 version.
This Powerwall++ thing doesn’t make sense for me.
I mean - it now just has another inverter included. Maybe that’s all. But it is not the gamechanger Elon called it.

 

[jjrandorin]

Is it possible, this is just not PW3 but another PW2 version.

Not if you look at the picture on the product shared in post #146 which is the one that starts the discussion of the actual product install.

 

[NewbieScoobie]

I read some speculation somewhere (can't recall where...reddit maybe) that the PW3 is somehow capable of facilitating V2H in a way that prior versions are/were not. Not necessarily enabled currently as such, but, could be with a SW update to the cars. Has that possibility been discussed here, and either confirmed/denied on a technical basis?

Again not saying that PW3 currently allows V2H. But that it *could* via SW update. Obviously, that would be a game changer in that you could then combine a single PW with your car to provide a fair amount of power backup in lieu of a generator. Solar doesn't really work in my case and I'd rather not install a generator...but man would I love to take advantage of the enormous battery that's already sitting in my garage.

 

[h2ofun]

I read some speculation somewhere (can't recall where...reddit maybe) that the PW3 is somehow capable of facilitating V2H in a way that prior versions are/were not. Not necessarily enabled currently as such, but, could be with a SW update to the cars. Has that possibility been discussed here, and either confirmed/denied on a technical basis?

Again not saying that PW3 currently allows V2H. But that it *could* via SW update. Obviously, that would be a game changer in that you could then combine a single PW with your car to provide a fair amount of power backup in lieu of a generator. Solar doesn't really work in my case and I'd rather not install a generator...but man would I love to take advantage of the enormous battery that's already sitting in my garage.

This is why an EV hummer would be much better. Would not just be sitting there

 

[TespaceX]

I read some speculation somewhere (can't recall where...reddit maybe) that the PW3 is somehow capable of facilitating V2H in a way that prior versions are/were not. Not necessarily enabled currently as such, but, could be with a SW update to the cars. Has that possibility been discussed here, and either confirmed/denied on a technical basis?

Again not saying that PW3 currently allows V2H. But that it *could* via SW update. Obviously, that would be a game changer in that you could then combine a single PW with your car to provide a fair amount of power backup in lieu of a generator. Solar doesn't really work in my case and I'd rather not install a generator...but man would I love to take advantage of the enormous battery that's already sitting in my garage.

I’m pretty sure Elon has been on record of saying V2X is not something he is interested in doing with the Tesla brand. Makes no sense to do so, either, with how well they’re doing as is without that functionality.

And, this is why I opted to go with Enphase. They have made it very clear V2X will be coming.

 

[Matt-FL]

You can do it with the Ford Lightning, however you have to purchase the higher end model with the inverter, and it is limited to 9.6kw. The in-home install and hardware adds another $10k. With 98kWh or 131kWh of battery though, that's like having 6-8 powerwalls - except for the limited wattage it can draw.

 

[sunwarriors]

I’m pretty sure Elon has been on record of saying V2X is not something he is interested in doing with the Tesla brand. Makes no sense to do so, either, with how well they’re doing as is without that functionality.

And, this is why I opted to go with Enphase. They have made it very clear V2X will be coming.

I think Tesla will do this if forced to by the competition. Like EV prices, if folks will pay $68k for a MY, they never would've cut prices, but look at how it is now?

V2X makes a lot of sense as most car batteries are huge and mostly sitting and doing nothing. PWs can now be purchased without Tesla solar and ordered online direct to ship with your own installer. It's all market driven.

 

[NewbieScoobie]

PWs can now be purchased without Tesla solar and ordered online direct to ship with your own installer. It's all market driven.

Exactly.

 

[mongo]

I read some speculation somewhere (can't recall where...reddit maybe) that the PW3 is somehow capable of facilitating V2H in a way that prior versions are/were not. Not necessarily enabled currently as such, but, could be with a SW update to the cars. Has that possibility been discussed here, and either confirmed/denied on a technical basis?

Again not saying that PW3 currently allows V2H. But that it *could* via SW update. Obviously, that would be a game changer in that you could then combine a single PW with your car to provide a fair amount of power backup in lieu of a generator. Solar doesn't really work in my case and I'd rather not install a generator...but man would I love to take advantage of the enormous battery that's already sitting in my garage.

Technically, PW+ and PW++ can do V2H by connecting the vehicle pack to the PV input. Needs charge port handshaking and vehicle software that engages the supercharging contactors.

 

[NewbieScoobie]

Technically, PW+ and PW++ can do V2H by connecting the vehicle pack to the PV input. Needs charge port handshaking and vehicle software that engages the supercharging contactors.

Ah interesting thanks. So I guess the capability has been there all along.

 

[Docfxit]

I can see that would capture another good chunk of the population that would buy Tesla cars to have the capability to keep the lights on during a power outage. Nice incentive. I'd pay extra for that feature. I purchased a generator, Natural Gas adapter, enclosure to cut down on the noise, a fan to go inside the enclosure to keep the air circulating, plastic gas pipe to get natural gas to where I want to put it. And now I'm on the fence if I should install it since I'm thinking of going solar. I don't think the solar installers like to connect up a generator to power the house.

 

[jjrandorin]

I read some speculation somewhere (can't recall where...reddit maybe) that the PW3 is somehow capable of facilitating V2H in a way that prior versions are/were not. Not necessarily enabled currently as such, but, could be with a SW update to the cars. Has that possibility been discussed here, and either confirmed/denied on a technical basis?

Again not saying that PW3 currently allows V2H. But that it *could* via SW update. Obviously, that would be a game changer in that you could then combine a single PW with your car to provide a fair amount of power backup in lieu of a generator. Solar doesn't really work in my case and I'd rather not install a generator...but man would I love to take advantage of the enormous battery that's already sitting in my garage.

Since none of Teslas current vehicles have bi directional charge ports, it certainly wouldnt be with the current tesla vehicle fleet even if this were a thing.

So, no, you wouldnt be taking advantage of the battery thats already in your tesla vehicle in your garage, regardless of whether this is a thing or not.

I would think any Tesla gateway would be able to facilitate bi directional energy flow, since they already do that, so if tesla wanted to, they could make a firmware update for older tesla gateways as well, but none of the vehicles have bi directional charging currently so they have no incentive to do so.

 

[mongo]

Since none of Teslas current vehicles have bi directional charge ports, it certainly wouldnt be with the current tesla vehicle fleet even if this were a thing.

So, no, you wouldnt be taking advantage of the battery thats already in your tesla vehicle in your garage, regardless of whether this is a thing or not.

I would think any Tesla gateway would be able to facilitate bi directional energy flow, since they already do that, so if tesla wanted to, they could make a firmware update for older tesla gateways as well, but none of the vehicles have bi directional charging currently so they have no incentive to do so.

Which is why you'd need to add an inverter, like the one in PW+(+). Power handling isn't the greatest though, but the building blocks are there.

 

[Daniel Kaiser]

Since none of Teslas current vehicles have bi directional charge ports, it certainly wouldnt be with the current tesla vehicle fleet even if this were a thing.

So, no, you wouldnt be taking advantage of the battery thats already in your tesla vehicle in your garage, regardless of whether this is a thing or not.

I would think any Tesla gateway would be able to facilitate bi directional energy flow, since they already do that, so if tesla wanted to, they could make a firmware update for older tesla gateways as well, but none of the vehicles have bi directional charging currently so they have no incentive to do so.

CCS has the ability for bidirectional charging. It is just not implemented yet.

So there is no need to change any plugs. When the technic inside the Tesla is capable, it could come.

Maybe Highland is already

 

[h2ofun]

CCS has the ability for bidirectional charging. It is just not implemented yet.

So there is no need to change any plugs. When the technic inside the Tesla is capable, it could come.

Maybe Highland is already

I believe the first roadster had the capability?

 

[BGbreeder]

CCS has the ability for bidirectional charging. It is just not implemented yet.

So there is no need to change any plugs. When the technic inside the Tesla is capable, it could come.

Maybe Highland is already

Can you point me to somewhere that says the Tesla electronics support bidirectional current flow, either AC or DC? My understanding is that additional electronics beyond the charging circuits are need to source power. I.e. it is not just a software change.

BG

 

[willow_hiller]

Can you point me to somewhere that says the Tesla electronics support bidirectional current flow, either AC or DC? My understanding is that additional electronics beyond the charging circuits are need to source power. I.e. it is not just a software change.

BG

Ironically, the best source is a video debunking native DC to AC V2G by looking directly at the charge circuit. But in the video, the engineer notes that the DC to DC Supercharging circuit can be run in reverse; so you couldn't utilize the onboard inverter and would need an external inverter to receive AC from the pack:

 

[mongo]

Can you point me to somewhere that says the Tesla electronics support bidirectional current flow, either AC or DC? My understanding is that additional electronics beyond the charging circuits are need to source power. I.e. it is not just a software change.

BG

Let me flip the question. How could a direct DC link (pack, contactor, port) not support bidirectional current flow?