Discussion: "Powerwall +"

[willow_hiller]

There is the PW+ battery unit with higher output power, and there is also the solar PW2 which combines the PW+ battery unit with a separate-but-connected top solar module.

I think this may be the other way around. We have the spec-sheet for the combination Powerwall/solar-inverter and it's titled "Powerwall+".

Meanwhile we haven't seen any Tesla documentation for the separate higher output Powerwall (which Elon called "plus" on the earnings call), but some state certification documents for it call it "Powerwall 2.1"

 

[MP3Mike]

PW+ in terms of the post-Novemenber higher power handling, as opposed to the combined solar PW unit. Given Elon's update regarding high output capacity in mild temperatures, a new PW could potentially make use of the larger breaker.

Ok, he is talking about something entirely different than this thread. I don't think he can you specs released for the Powerwall+ to try to get his installer to install things for an entirely different product. Maybe what he is talking about will be called a Powerwall 2.2? Or Powerwall 2.1+? Or maybe it will stay a Powerwall 2.1...

 

[mongo]

I think this may be the other way around. We have the spec-sheet for the combination Powerwall/solar-inverter and it's titled "Powerwall+".

Meanwhile we haven't seen any Tesla documentation for the separate higher output Powerwall (which Elon called "plus" on the earnings call), but some state certification documents for it call it "Powerwall 2.1"

Ok, he is talking about something entirely different than this thread. I don't think he can you specs released for the Powerwall+ to try to get his installer to install things for an entirely different product. Maybe what he is talking about will be called a Powerwall 2.2? Or Powerwall 2.1+? Or maybe it will stay a Powerwall 2.1...

Yeah we need to figure out what we are calling what. Elon called the Post-November units (with solar?) Powerwall 2 +, but it sounds like the PW on that came out in November. If the guts of PW2+ are Solar -> PPT buck to internal DC rail connected to pack and inverter, then the inverter can put out the power listed as the solar+BESS spec. If the battery is at a happy temp and SOC, it could also put out that power level on its own.

Tesla (TSLA) Q1 2021 Earnings Call Transcript | The Motley Fool

That solar could either be solar retrofit with conventional panels put on the roof or it can be the Tesla Solarglass Roof. But in all cases, it will have the power to -- technically, this is -- it's actually Powerwall 2 plus, if you will. The plus refers to a higher peak power capability. So basically, all Powerwalls made since roughly November of last year have a lot more peak power capability than the specification on the website.

They have about twice the power capability roughly. It depends on how you count power, but about twice the peak power and about arguably twice the steady-state power of the specification of the website. The energy is the same, but the power is roughly double. And all the installations -- so all installations will have a Powerwall.

What about:
PW 2 : Pre-November
PW 2+: Post-November
PW 2+ Solar aka PW Solar: Post November with the Solar box add on
Or does it make more sense (due to everything going forward having solar)
PW 2+: Unit with solar
PW 2+ lite: Post-November PW without solar (ironic naming)

 

[MP3Mike]

Yeah we need to figure out what we are calling what. Elon called the Post-November units (with solar?) Powerwall 2 +, but it sounds like the PW on that came out in November. If the guts of PW2+ are Solar -> PPT buck to internal DC rail connected to pack and inverter, then the inverter can put out the power listed as the solar+BESS spec. If the battery is at a happy temp and SOC, it could also put out that power level on its own.

Tesla (TSLA) Q1 2021 Earnings Call Transcript | The Motley Fool

What about:
PW 2 : Pre-November
PW 2+: Post-November
PW 2+ Solar aka PW Solar: Post November with the Solar box add on
Or does it make more sense (due to everything going forward having solar)
PW 2+: Unit with solar
PW 2+ lite: Post-November PW without solar (ironic naming)

I would think it would be best to stick to what Tesla calls the products. So:

1. Powerwall 2: Stand-alone Powerwall product pre-November
2. Powerwall+: Integrated solar inverter/gateway/storage system
3. Powerwall 2 plus: Stand-alone Powerwall product post-November with higher output power capability

Of course they might not be selling any stand-alone Powerwall products for a long time so we might not see anything more official than what Elon said on the call. Or maybe they will still just call it Powerwall 2.

 

[mongo]

I would think it would be best to stick to what Tesla calls the products. So:

1. Powerwall 2: Stand-alone Powerwall product pre-November
2. Powerwall+: Integrated solar inverter/gateway/storage system
3. Powerwall 2 plus: Stand-alone Powerwall product post-November with higher output power capability

Of course they might not be selling any stand-alone Powerwall products for a long time so we might not see anything more official than what Elon said on the call. Or maybe they will still just call it Powerwall 2.

Ok, yeah, the solar enabled unit is called Powerwall + and PW 2 is as it has been known, but adding the 2 to denote lack of solar seems confusing ( since the + is a PW2 + and solar).
Maybe @willow_hiller's idea of PW 2.1 for higher output post-November non-solar? It's shorter than PW 2 refresh (though that prevent ambiguity if Tesla makes a 2.1)

 

[h2ofun]

PW+ in terms of the post-Novemenber higher power handling, as opposed to the combined solar PW unit. Given Elon's update regarding high output capacity in mild temperatures, a new PW could potentially make use of the larger breaker.

Nope, seems PW+ is the new product

 

[h2ofun]

I would think it would be best to stick to what Tesla calls the products. So:

1. Powerwall 2: Stand-alone Powerwall product pre-November
2. Powerwall+: Integrated solar inverter/gateway/storage system
3. Powerwall 2 plus: Stand-alone Powerwall product post-November with higher output power capability

Of course they might not be selling any stand-alone Powerwall products for a long time so we might not see anything more official than what Elon said on the call. Or maybe they will still just call it Powerwall 2.

We have no facts about a Powerwall 2 plus that anyone has verified yet.

 

[h2ofun]

Ok, yeah, the solar enabled unit is called Powerwall + and PW 2 is as it has been known, but adding the 2 to denote lack of solar seems confusing ( since the + is a PW2 + and solar).
Maybe @willow_hiller's idea of PW 2.1 for higher output post-November non-solar? It's shorter than PW 2 refresh (though that prevent ambiguity if Tesla makes a 2.1)

folks have powerwall 2.1's installed BEFORE november

 

[sunbear]

Yes, during Tesla's Q1 2021 conference call, Elon said:

It’s actually ‘Powerwall 2 Plus’, if you will. The plus refers to a higher peak power capability. So basically, all Powerwalls made since roughly November of last year have a lot more peak power capability than the specification on the website. They have about twice the power capability roughly

So what I am thinking is that if my Powerwalls are due to be delivered in August 2021 then chances are high that they have twice the power capacity.
Since all the wiring, panels, and breakers are being installed this week, I want to make sure that they are all properly sized to accommodate the capability of the Powerwall 2 Plus. Do you think I need 50A breakers instead of 30A?

 

[MP3Mike]

So what I am thinking is that if my Powerwalls are due to be delivered in August 2021 then chances are high that they have twice the power capacity.
Since all the wiring, panels, and breakers are being installed this week, I want to make sure that they are all properly sized to accommodate the capability of the Powerwall 2 Plus. Do you think I need 50A breakers instead of 30A?

Our best guess at this point is that 8 gauge wire and 40A breakers will be required. But until Tesla releases the official specs and install guide we really don't know. (And I doubt that your installer will foot the bill for more expensive materials than what was required in the specs that were available when they quoted you the install.)

And changing the breaker size might require revising the plans and re-submitting for a revised permit. (And possibly run afoul of other restrictions and require other upgrades.)

 

[h2ofun]

Yes, during Tesla's Q1 2021 conference call, Elon said:


So what I am thinking is that if my Powerwalls are due to be delivered in August 2021 then chances are high that they have twice the power capacity.
Since all the wiring, panels, and breakers are being installed this week, I want to make sure that they are all properly sized to accommodate the capability of the Powerwall 2 Plus. Do you think I need 50A breakers instead of 30A?

Nope, bad assumption. Assuming you are installing the existing product, 30 amp is fine. No one has the powerwall + yet

 

[h2ofun]

Our best guess at this point is that 8 gauge wire and 40A breakers will be required. But until Tesla releases the official specs and install guide we really don't know. (And I doubt that your installer will foot the bill for more expensive materials than what was required in the specs that were available when they quoted you the install.)

And changing the breaker size might require revising the plans and re-submitting for a revised permit. (And possibly run afoul of other restrictions and require other upgrades.)

nope, from what I am told NO 40 amp.. If that is installed, tesla told me they will have to be replaced with a 30 before any new FW will be updated!!

 

[slcasner]

Earlier in this thread it was said that the Powerwall+ can be ganged with a second Powerwall, presumably without the extra inverter box on top. If the power then flows through the one inverter, what breaker size and wire gauge would be required?

 

[sunbear]

nope, from what I am told NO 40 amp.. If that is installed, tesla told me they will have to be replaced with a 30 before any new FW will be updated!!

Nope, bad assumption. Assuming you are installing the existing product, 30 amp is fine. No one has the powerwall + yet

I'm not asking about the Powerwall+, I'm asking about the Powerwall 2 Plus (which likely shares many of the same components as the Powerwall+).

What we have been told by Tesla/Elon so far:
1. The current Powerwall 2 spec sheet lists Overcurrent Protection Device as 30A.
2. The Powerwall+ spec sheet lists Overcurrent Protection Device at 50A. Most likely the Tesla Powerwall 2 Plus will use the same components with the same capacity as the Powerwall+ except for the additional inverter box sitting on top.
3. Elon says that the Powerwall 2 Plus will have twice the power output capacity of the powerwall 2 and has been secretly in production since November last year
4. Elon tweets that Powerwall 2 upgraded power capacity can be increased by a firmware update next month. Therefore there must be people who already have a Powerwall 2 Plus installed, otherwise there would be no one to receive a firmware update

If the Max Current Output on a Powerwall 2 is 30A and the power is set to increase by even 50% after the firmware update next month, then I don't see why it would be unreasonable to assume that more than a 30A breaker would be required to avoid tripping.

 

[h2ofun]

Earlier in this thread it was said that the Powerwall+ can be ganged with a second Powerwall, presumably without the extra inverter box on top. If the power then flows through the one inverter, what breaker size and wire gauge would be required?

Can you show a spec sheet from tesla that support this? And the install instructions from Telsa. So far all I have seen are lots of rumors

 

[MP3Mike]

2. The Powerwall+ spec sheet lists Overcurrent Protection Device at 50A. Most likely the Tesla Powerwall 2 Plus will use the same components with the same capacity as the Powerwall+ except for the additional inverter box sitting on top.

Bad assumption. The Powerwall+ includes the Powerwall and Solar inverter in that 50A connection. I wouldn't expect anything on that spec sheet to be applicable to a stand-alone Powerwall install. (Like what you are getting.)

 

[mongo]

Earlier in this thread it was said that the Powerwall+ can be ganged with a second Powerwall, presumably without the extra inverter box on top. If the power then flows through the one inverter, what breaker size and wire gauge would be required?

Bad assumption. The Powerwall+ includes the Powerwall and Solar inverter in that 50A connection. I wouldn't expect anything on that spec sheet to be applicable to a stand-alone Powerwall install. (Like what you are getting.)

Going on assumptions, I assume the top box is only the solar PPT buck converter to go from 4 strings to the internal DC bus and the bottom PW is basically the same as any post November unit.

So add on PW would still have their own inverters.

 

[slcasner]

Can you show a spec sheet from tesla that support this? And the install instructions from Telsa. So far all I have seen are lots of rumors

Nope, only the posts by @daveh85 relaying what he was told by "the local crew" (that I interpret as doing his system installation).

 

[oholladay]

PW+ in terms of the post-Novemenber higher power handling, as opposed to the combined solar PW unit. Given Elon's update regarding high output capacity in mild temperatures, a new PW could potentially make use of the larger breaker.

I agree that the PW+, based on the spec sheet, appears to refer to the new integrated gateway / inverter and Powerwall unit.

However, I think some of people's confusion about the "plus" referring instead to a higher peak power capability (and not the new integrated unit) comes from Elon's comment on the earnings call, in which he said that "the plus refers to a higher peak power capability." He called it a "Powerwall 2 Plus" on that call, which is obviously a little different from the spec sheet, and he also implied that many people already owned these units.

So, some existing PW2 owners (those who suspect their units were manufactured after November; I'm still trying to figure out whether mine, which were installed the third week of November, qualify) are expecting an update that will increase their PW's peak power capability.

 

[h2ofun]

Nope, only the posts by @daveh85 relaying what he was told by "the local crew" (that I interpret as doing his system installation).

Yep, I just want to see install specs first.

Still have not officially seen anything saying existing PW's will increase, other than how some of us heard Elon's tweet, which maybe totally wrong