DIY 12v replacement

[sorka]

Don't know the cost of the 12v yet in my market but they will only charge me for the battery+tax not the ranger fee or labor associated with replacing the 12v

OK, just as long as it is the battery itself, because the normal Tesla service also replaces all the mounting kit on top which nearly doubles the parts cost but isn't necessary.

When they replaced my battery, they replaced ONLY the battery itself, but others have reported that they try and get you for the kit on top when you're paying out of warranty.

 

[strider]

OK, just as long as it is the battery itself, because the normal Tesla service also replaces all the mounting kit on top which nearly doubles the parts cost but isn't necessary.

When they replaced my battery, they replaced ONLY the battery itself, but others have reported that they try and get you for the kit on top when you're paying out of warranty.

They should only charge you for the kit if you're going from an Exide to the C&D. If it's C&D to C&D they should move the bits over. I have to believe all the Exides are gone by now.

My Ranger told me he'd be happy to sell me just the battery but then when he quoted only $70 in labor I said he could do it If he would have done it for free I would have been thrilled.

 

[Knightowl]

OK, just as long as it is the battery itself, because the normal Tesla service also replaces all the mounting kit on top which nearly doubles the parts cost but isn't necessary.

When they replaced my battery, they replaced ONLY the battery itself, but others have reported that they try and get you for the kit on top when you're paying out of warranty.

Battery was replaced today, $144 pre tax and $155.06 after tax. Just the battery and nothing else, the connectors were moved over from the old battery. There was a firmware update required as this is now a Gen3 12v battery and is supposed to have better wear and last longer --2yrs I guess I will find out, happy car again though.

For those of you that get the chance to change a battery on your own then a call into tesla can have the firmare update done over the air.

 

[strider]

Battery was replaced today, $144 pre tax and $155.06 after tax. Just the battery and nothing else, the connectors were moved over from the old battery. There was a firmware update required as this is now a Gen3 12v battery and is supposed to have better wear and last longer --2yrs I guess I will find out, happy car again though.

For those of you that get the chance to change a battery on your own then a call into tesla can have the firmare update done over the air.

Good to hear. I got 3.5 years out of my last one so fingers crossed this new one lasts as long.

 

[ElectricLove]

I owed you some data but have been so busy that anything more tesla related than an occasional forum hope while I'm on the road is all I can handle recently.

That said I found this page with a much more thorough analysis:

Syonyk's Project Blog: Tesla Model S 12V Battery Analysis

They mention 5 cycles a day. I saw six, but the reality is as the battery loses capacity, the cycle count goes up to 8 or 9 a day before the car finally calls BS and tells you the 12v battery is bad.

In your 2 column comparison, where is the cost coming from? You list $800 for your battery but it's only $395, right? The Tesla AGM battery is reportedly sold for about $122.

edit: oh wait, that's the Optima you're comparing it to. Is there an Optima model that has been confirmed as a drop in replacement?

Yeah the Optima in that model had nothing to do with TESLA vehicles; it was something I created for an RV manufacturer, they were looking at a completely different battery line we offer (actually looking for something custom) and wanted a side-by-side with the units they were already using at the time (the Optimas)...

 

[scaesare]

So... I received the 12v Battery Needs Service - Replace Soon warning this morning on my early '13 Model S (i.e. the model with the battery in the original PITA location)

My original battery was proactively replaced with the C&D battery under warranty on April 2, 2014. So I've gotten just about 3 years and 70K miles out of it.

I have a Tesla Service Manual, (same as the PDF file from earlier in this thread). I've also watched The Tesla Technician's 2 part video on replacement (part 3 would be nice...)

So a few additional questions:

1) Any idea how "proactive" this warning is? Do I likely have 24 hrs or a couple of weeks before the 12V dies completely (I realize all batteries are different.. just looking for a ballpark)

2) Any good online or other sources for the exact C&D replacement?

3) Any other "gotcha's" in doing this myself? I've worked on all my own cars for years, so not afraid to wade in, but always happy to learn from the experience of others.

Thanks!

 

[zwede]

1) Any idea how "proactive" this warning is? Do I likely have 24 hrs or a couple of weeks before the 12V dies completely (I realize all batteries are different.. just looking for a ballpark)

Supposedly you have a month or two before failure, but...

2) Any good online or other sources for the exact C&D replacement?

AFAIK an exact replacement is only available from Tesla. Price is pretty reasonable though so I don't see any point in hunting around for one.

3) Any other "gotcha's" in doing this myself? I've worked on all my own cars for years, so not afraid to wade in, but always happy to learn from the experience of others.

Thanks!

I haven't done mine myself yet, so will follow your adventure with interest. I also have an early (July '13) car. I recently started using a battery tender. We'll see how much (if any) that extends 12V life.

 

[scaesare]

Good deal... thanks for the response... I'll try and snap a few pics along the way to share.

 

[strider]

One thing to note is that in the procedure it says to turn the battery 90 degrees. I watched my tech do my replacement and he rolled it from vertical to horizontal. Also the tech didn't remove all the stuff that the guy in the video did. He followed the PDF for what to remove. Also

As I noted above, for $70 labor I just had Tesla replace it. I figured on a cost per swear word basis it was cheaper to go that route

 

[scaesare]

I gotta call my SC and see what they say.. for $70 they may get my biz too.

On edit: $300 for the Service folks to do it, $144 + tax to buy the battery.

Looks like I have myself a project...

 

[FlatSix911]

The replacement process for the dual motor model S is much simpler.
Battery - Auxiliary - 12V (Dual Motor) (Remove and Replace) FRT No: 17011202

Warning: If the 12V power supply is disconnected, do not attempt to open any doors with door glass in closed position. Failure to follow this instruction could result in door glass shatter.
Note: Before disconnecting the 12V power supply, ensure that the driver’s door window is fully open. Failure to follow this instruction could result in vehicle lockout.

Removal
1. Disconnect 12V and HV power (refer to procedure).
2. Disconnect the 12V positive connection (torque 5 Nm).
3. Release the 2 nuts (torque 5 Nm) and 1 bolt (torque 5 Nm) that secure the 12V battery strap.
4. Remove the battery from the tray.

Installation
Installation procedure is the reverse of removal.

This is definitely a "beta" product and as such is expensive and may not work as advertised. I think it's interesting and I do hope it works out (and the price drops). (Interesting side note. I bought a LiFePO4 battery sold as an emergency jump starter for my old Land Rover which is deteriorating in many unusual ways. It's a small lightweight battery that supposedly has 600 amps cold cranking power. It also has USB charging ports, a 19v laptop charge port and a 12v supply. Haven't tested it yet as a starter but it's interesting.)
GOOLOO Car Jump Starter Battery Charger
Link: Amazon.com: GOOLOO 600A Peak Portable Car Jump Starter Phone Power Bank (Up to 6.5L Gas or 5.0L Diesel Engine) Auto Battery Pack Booster Charger with LED Light: Automotive

I have had success with jump starting my ICE vehicles with the Li-on unit ... have not yet tried it on the Model S 12V battery

 

[strider]

I gotta call my SC and see what they say.. for $70 they may get my biz too.

On edit: $300 for the Service folks to do it, $144 + tax to buy the battery.

Looks like I have myself a project...

That's crazy. I'm looking at my receipt from the end of January and it says Total Labor and Misc items $70. Battery was $144 + tax. My tech said the service book lists it as a 20min job. They're charging you almost a full hour of labor. If you're interested in doing it yourself for fun and to learn something then go for it - we look forward to hearing about it. But if not I would go back to them and ask why the extra labor. I thought Tesla had a $175/hr shop rate everywhere?

 

[zwede]

Usually when service does it they will insist on replacing the post adapter which runs close to $100. Looking at the adapter I don't see any reason to replace it. It's just a metal piece, nothing that wears.

 

[strider]

Usually when service does it they will insist on replacing the post adapter which runs close to $100. Looking at the adapter I don't see any reason to replace it. It's just a metal piece, nothing that wears.

I asked my tech about that. He said it's only needed when going from Exide to C&D. According to him all the Exides should have died (or been proactively replaced) long ago so no one should have been charged for the terminal kit for awhile now.

 

[scaesare]

Whelp, called ahead of time (in order to have part/paperwork ready ahead of time as per recommendation by the parts dept person when I called earlier in the week) to pick up a battery today to install myself.

Person I spoke with apologized but informed me that this part is not available for sale to owners, as it requires a firmware update. Only option is ~$300 service visit. She wouldn't budge, and no manager available to speak with.

Called previous service center I had used, and talked to parts guy, he says similar, the reason being that it's yet a NEWER battery than the C&D (red top & black body). This requires a configuration update. I suspect this is similar to the procedure in the service manual where you must use the Tesla Toolbox software to set the configuration for the new battery type so the charging/monitoring system has the correct parameters.

Quite frankly this is ridiculous. Tesla needs to make the tools available for folks to work on their own cars. I have a number of physical specialized tools from other manufacturers from over the years. Just because it's software doesn't really make it any different. Expose the subset of configuration options for doing basic routine maintenance, and sell us an Ethernet cable with the right connector.

I can update the firmware and settings in dozen other devices I own over USB. Let me change my own flippin' battery.

 

[strider]

Holy cats. That is nuts. I just had mine done 2 months ago and it was the C&D battery. Madness. Keep us posted! Would like to hear what the new battery is. Not to mention why couldn't they sell you the battery and then have you bring the car in and charge you 15 mins of labor or whatever to update the firmware? Would still be cheaper than $300. Sheesh.

 

[zwede]

This sounds very much like what BMW did years ago. A "service needed" light came on the dash and only a dealer could reset it. Owners filed a class action against BMW and the court ruled that owners could have their cars serviced anywhere and BMW had to reset the light for free. The next year cars had an easy way for the owners to reset the light.

Maybe see what happens if you demand the SC changes the setting for free and you replace the battery yourself. And if they say no, contact Tesla HQ and make sure they know about the BMW case.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

Had my March 2014 P85+ in for service at ~62K miles, replaced the 12volt battery and some other stuff with the BATTMOBILE battery, it is significantly lighter than the Lead-Acid battery. I bought the battery independently, but had Tesla install it and reprogram the charging profile from Lead-Acid to LiFePO. One day in so far so good.

 

[FlatSix911]

Had my March 2014 P85+ in for service at ~62K miles, replaced the 12volt battery and some other stuff with the BATTMOBILE battery, it is significantly lighter than the Lead-Acid battery. I bought the battery independently, but had Tesla install it and reprogram the charging profile from Lead-Acid to LiFePO. One day in so far so good.

Good to know that Tesla has a LiFePo charging profile available... what was the installation cost?

 

[bktiger86]

Can you put any traditional 12v car battery into a Tesla?